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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-01-19          104485


I am going to tear into my braking system this afternoon on my Chevy Silverado. Its a 1999 and this winter it wont stop! I am driving my self nutz. I slid into a car last month at a stop sign. Get this, I was traveling about 7-8mph comeing down a very slight down hill grade. There was 2 cars at the stop sign ahead of me. One took off and the other behind that car did not move. I started to apply the brakes atleast 200' before her. Remember I am going 7-8mph already, it is snow covered and slippery so I was cautious to begin with ( And really folks! Where the heck do I have to go in a hurry anyway? I dont have a job!) Still locked out from Case Corp. {CNH}) LOL
Anyway my anti locks started to kick in. I was like," Whats this?" So like they say, I just stayed on the brakes since I had all kinds of room before her anyway and she will pull up (RIGHT?) My truck I swear was picking up speed for half the distance, all the time I am saying, " OK lady pull up! Pull up Lady!!!! Hey you dumb ass PULL UP!!!!!!! BANG! I could not believe it! Not only did I hit her (I was at about 3mph but as you know a truck moving at any speed and anouther vehical STOPPED makes a good hit) She pulled up (THEN!) got out and looked at the back of her car, right away she say's, "we are cool" I told her, " hey let me get your number and I will send you some money" She say's NO NO We are GOOD! (Her hubby is going to kill her) Maybe she did not have a license I dont know, there was no visual damage but snow was covering the whole back end so you know there will be something albeit maybe small)
Anyway I was physically shaking for about 5 min, afterwards (my right leg.) I could not believe the darn truck would not stop. I went and got 500 pounds of (Corn) LOL. No really water softner salt and put it in the back of the truck. That seemed to help a bit, but was too much weight for the truck to stop good so I went back down to 300#. Since then the truck is still acting the same way. Anti locks go on imediately after applying the brakes at any decent speed on snowy roads? Just this morning driving one of my daughters to school it happened again, no accident but I was freaking out! I am going to tear into the brakes ALL FOUR this morning. The back brakes are working (BY HAND I ONLY CHECKED IT THOUGH) I applied the brakes and tried turning the wheel by hand, they would not move) I checked that 2 weeks ago. Now I figure I need to rip them apart and figure out what is going on.
ANY sugestions? Anyone here aver have this kind of thing happen to them? About Oct. 1, I was hit in the front end by a 3 car accident, I was not moving, stopped at a light. Not much damage and no PI injury's to me anyways(one of the other cars was totalled though). I noticed my anit locks seemed to go on often after that (on bumps) so I took it in to be looked at (I figured the insurance would cover it? WRONG!) They are still fighting it and it dont look good for me, looks like I just ate that bill) Anyway the dealer said they changed a code in the computer to help with this, said it was ok'd by the company? This apparently did not help! You think this has anything to do with the truck going into anti so soon?
I hate my truck! I have been hit on all 4 sides in 2 years and never been moving while being hit except for when a guy blew a red light.
Maybe its time to retire this truck and use it for summer time run arounds? I am pretty pissed right now so any suggestions would be great
Thanks




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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-01-19          104488


I bought a 95 S-10 Blazer new that had anti-lock brakes. I swear if you spit on the road and drove across it while braking, the anti-locks would go on. I've been told that they can be reprogrammed. Often when on ice and you hit the brakes and the vehicle slides, you get a sensation that it speeds up. I've had a whole bunch of cars and trucks since then with anti-locks and haven't had a problem. I did change tire size on the Blazer from the factory size and went one size bigger. That could have been the problem.

When I'm in those situations, I lock the brakes so the tires are sliding and then drop it in reverse and accelerate. It works when it is a close call! You have to be careful because all of a sudden you are going backwards and the guy behind you will panic. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-19          104494


The ABS on those trucks activate (as most do) on a difference in speed between the front sensors, one per disc, and the rear sensor.

If any one of these sensors percieves a speed differential of more than the allowable limits while braking it kicks the system in.

If a sensor has been disturbed, or the wires pinched, or in some cases, it is time for a brake job, especially back brakes, the vehicle will do exactly what you are describing. If your back brakes are worn, or badly out of adjustment, seized adjusters?, the truck will be stopping almost entirely with the front wheels, this will cause the ABS system to be over-active.

We had one of our trucks go weird on us, it didn't matter how you touched the pedal, the ABS kicked in. It turned out a piece of road debris had nicked the wire and the sensor was telling the computer that the wheel was not turning at all. A 2 minute swap out of the sensor fixed the problem.

Best of luck. ....


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-01-19          104501


Arrow: Your '99 has 4 wheel disks, possibly 4 channel anti lock as well. I would try:

1. checking for pad wear on all 4 corners, replace if needed
2. Look at any wheel sensors you can see at the rotors (Warning Light?)
3. Check for buildup of ice or debris of any kind on the rotors/sensors
4. Follow wiring from sensors as far as you can looking for damage
5. If your truck is 3 channel, there is a sensor on the ring gear in the rear diff. Check it's wiring and connections coming from the rear end.
6. Try calling a dealer (different one?) and asking for opinions, they may help you.

Let us know what (if anything) you find.
Larry ....


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-01-19          104504


Arrow: another thought-- Is your truck a 4x4? If it is, then shifting to 4wd "should" deactivate the ABS.

Larry ....


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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
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2005-01-19          104507


That reminds me of a Road Runner I built once. The self-adjusters on the rear brakes didn't work (do any of them work?) so about 20 miles after adjusting the rear brakes, you basically had only fronts. Since the car was an automatic, in the winter it would just happily slide the front wheels while the rear kept on pushing them. The first few times it freaked me out. I developed the habit of putting in in neutral when approaching a stop to lessen the effect; also it had a high-lift cam and didn't have much vacuum if I left it in gear. It became a habit and I popped it in neutral when stopping year round.

I thought that anti-lock only kicked in at higher speeds? Something above the parking-lot speeds you're talking about. Is your truck an auto? Maybe the torque converter isn't unlocking at low rpm's as it should.

Good luck,
Bill ....


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bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 185 Upstate, NY
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2005-01-19          104511


I've had a hole rubbed through the vacuum line to the booster on the master cylinder before, I had to stand on the brake peddle to make it work. Don’t know if that’s how yours are working/ not working.

good luck ....


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Deerester
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 10 Butler Pa
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2005-01-19          104529


With out driving it myself its hard to pin point but I have a question. Does it do it on dry roads at all? If the ABS kicks in on DRY roads at low speeds (usually 5 mph and lower)its most likely a front sensor.This is done by watching the scanner for the one that drops out 3 or more mph than the other ones. Depending on build date some come with the whole hub. If its doing it only on snow covered roads and you feel its NOT NORMAL ABS operation (remember they are very sensitive) then I would check the rear rotors for rust and corrosion that could limit surface contact between pad and rotor cause front to do most of the work and skid. (rusty/corroded rotors very common on GM) ....


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cthonestguy
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 267 northeast
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2005-01-26          105016


My 2002 was acting up not quite as bad but it was kicking in when it shouldnt have. I pulled the fronts off at 75,000 and they were about 50%! I couldn't believe it, lot of towing in there and 50% on the factory brakes at 75k. I went about another 500 miles and said the heck with it I'm doing the brakes anyway. I bough new ceramic brakes. When I pulled the rears off they were about 5%. I just caught them. The rears were far gone as compared to the fronts. this was a first for me. I changed the brakes and after around 1500 miles they finally broke in and I haven't had any problems.

The antilocks DO work when you are in 4X4 on my truck. I have electronic 4x4 on mine with the awd button and pure 4x4. it works in both.

If you didn't check the rears they may be part of the problem. ....


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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-01-30          105234


My buddy spent $2000 on brakes on his '99 Silverado lease truck. He traded it and got a 2002.

A week later I was thumbing through a trade publication for independent auto repair shops. In it was an article for "How to Increase Your Profit". One of the features was GM truck antilock problems. The article poked fun at dealers because they said the fix was a "$48 steering wheel position sensor" located at the base of the steering column. The article decribed every symptom my buddy's truck had. ....


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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-07          105627


I am sorry I took so long to get back to you all. I see some really good advice and information Will try and cover all that has happened. When checking the back brakes last time I only pulled off one side and did not inspect thouroughly (My stupidity). The outside on the pass. side was decent at that time. Wrong!!! I just tore everything apart 3 weeks ago. (what an easy job!!) Love those 4wl disk. I think Av8R called alot of what was going on (he must have had one LOL) Back brakes were wore un evenly and corrosion and crud had built up on both the top and bottom of the uneven wear points. On one side I had only about 1/2"-5/8" of solid contact. The drivers side was a bit better but only on the outside. The rotors probably could of been turned. I know when I turned the front they only have enough for ONE turning on them since I did it myself and took the bare min. off and am at the low limits. Only took about .030 off (total of both sides). I made a executive decision! Re-place with new ones and clean up the old ones when I get back to work and sell on e-bay. This will eliminate any doubt I may have if further problems occur. TRY $92.75 a piece!!! Pads were a decent average price. What a easy job on those back brakes! So I was hoping I had the problem fixed. After further review NOT!! BUT with out a dought, the backs were helping next to nothing for stopping and the fronts were taking the load. This was part of the cause for early anti lock kicking in. I do believe I have a combination of problems and many of the posts here have hit a bit on the causes. The brakes definately are helpng now cause on dry pavement I dont feel like I am being thrown thru the front window anymore my just the fronts working properly. The anti's do not kick in as often or as soon as before but they still are not right. I think I mentioned in the first post that the dealer (on my complaints after the accident) said he changed a computer code or setting to try and help with this. Although you would think (if there really is such a thing!) it would be set harder to go off and not easier? I wonder if I should not go talk to the dealer, bring in the back rotors and show him them! Tell him to look up my last complaint about the brakes and what they DONE to fix them! Then politely ask him if after observing the rotors if he thinks I should of been told of this problem? Or if he even see's this as a problem? Then I would have him between a rock. I would think he would have to talk to his mechanics and ask why the hell they did not pull off the tires to check this basic function? I can't believe they did or they would of suggested this to be fixed also? What do you think? Then I would nicely say that my brakes are still acting up badly and would like them to switch back what ever they done to the factory settings? FOR FREE since apparently they never checked a basic component of the braking system. My conplaint read,
"Customer. say's anti-locks are activating early and often" Would you say that they should of atleast notified me? I think I also have the pads still, maybe I should bring them in also. Untill this time the dealer in question has been outstanding! In the service department. Even though I did not buy the truck from them they have been outstanding with my service and will more than likely buy from them if they can compete even remotely in price the next time.
Anyway you all had real great answers and many of you may of hit it on the edge of a few problems going on with it. Thanks alot guys. BTW. Just a bit of "411" When performing the removal of the calipers, there are 2 bolts that need to be removed on each caliper. That is it! Here is something that took me awhile to figure out. There is a rubber boot on this bolt. you need to slip a open end wrench in between the boot and the retainer. This bolt has a slip nut that it goes into and you really cant see it cause of the rubber boot. You will be turning that bolt for ever wondering why it dont come out all the way. One of them came out but that was because it was salted together. After looking at the book I found this out. After that (I shit you not) the other side took me all of 20 min. to remove the tire and all components, replace and put the tire back on 20 min. !!!! Awesome system the 4wl disks have on that chevy, now if I can just get them to work right.
So what do you think? Should I go talk to the dealer like I said, or do you think it is futile to try and get them to switch this back to a factory setting (If they really done this at all?)
Thanks again guys your all wonderful! ....


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jdmaine
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7 Maine
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2005-02-15          106162


Hi, I have a '98 GMC 2500 4X4 with 64K miles. At 58K the anti-lock breaks would come on at low RPMs when they felt like it. Even on dry pavement. I had to bring it back 3 times until the Chevy garage told me the magnetic strips buried in the hubs were bad. They tried swapping the sensors first. The hubs cost me $2,200 total. Even though all said this should not happen, GMC would not help me with the bill. First they said the truck was rusty?? Then they said I should have had GMC work on it and not Chevy???. I hate General Motors and they know it. I will buy Toyota next when they make a 3/4 ton. Has anyone else out there had to change the hubs? ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-02-15          106163


Once you have a bad experience it is hard to reconsider that company again. I owned three GM vehicles: a muscle car, a pickup, and GM's first attempt at a compact. All of them had problems, the most with the premiere of the GM compact car. I have not been back since, and have no regrets. They may have improved alot in all those years, but they won't ever get any of my cash again. Too many other quality things to buy, once burned forget it. ....


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-02-15          106164


Disc brakes are great to work on, aren't they? I can change the front brakes on my Dodge 3/4 ton in less than 45 min, including 16 lug nuts, pads and DA rotor scuff (rotors are part of the bearing assembly). BTW my Dodge uses the same calipers and pads as a Chebby. Thanks to the DANA 60 axle.

My rear brakes are drums, with 150k miles on them and still have a lot of shoe left. ....


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moeh14612
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4 Upstate NY
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2005-02-17          106327


I had similar probalems on my '98 tahoe. When I was below 7MPH, anitilocks would kick in, at first when I had brakes engaged, later anytime. Turns out little known chevy bulletin - I had rust built up under the front sensors, pulled them, scraped the area, liberal grease coating, re-installed and I am still good 2 years later. Not fun to pull, figure 2-3 hrs to do both sides if you are a shadetree like me. Hope that helps. ....


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jdmaine
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7 Maine
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2005-05-03          110668


Hi, Today I filed a 2'nd complaint with GM Customer Service and also a complaint with The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to go after my $2200 that I gave them in Nov. 2003 to fix my ABS. I have a '98 K2500 that is not included in the '99 - 2002 recall and it should be. GM also told me it is only Canadian trucks but that is not true. The Fed. is investigating complaints to the NHTSA about "buildup of corrosion on the anitlock brake system may cause it to activate at low speeds, increasing stopping distances". You all should file the same complaint!!
This is a known problem that GM is trying to cover up. They are trying to wear us down but I will not give up. The people that had accidents really need to speak up. Later ....


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