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cub cadets v s john deere

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m.young
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2004-03-13          79807


My boyfriend is interested in getting a lawn tractor for our new place. Of our farmer friends one swears by anything international, the other says john deere has the best rating. We would like to know what others think on easy use, reliability, and upkeep. Does one break down more often, is up keep more expensive on one than the other.....




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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-03-14          79845


The two brands mentioned are very comparable as far as durability. There are some creature comforts that are different but for the most part it would be a flip of the coin for the value to the owner. Some people talk about resale values but unfortunately they forget to talk about the cost of ownership. That is the cost that during your period of ownership that you will incur maintaining the product that you bought. Many times there are costs of ownership that when considered and subtracted from the resale value will equalize the increased preceived value that some feel they have. ....


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lamarbur
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 93 Ma/Ct state area
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2004-03-14          79849


I have a 1970 cub lawn tractor, forget the model I think 129, but, that makes no difference. I just now had the 8hp engine replaced, (700 and change) since 1970. I don't think heavy, heavy use, year in and out for 24 years straight is too bad.. IH makes awesome products. Although not the same type tractor, I was an owner operator of tractor trailers for many years and most of my rigs were also IH.. ....


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2004-03-14          79852


M., some of it depends on the models. If you ask about a Deere 4110 or 4115, the reliability is legendary but the 4210 through 4710 are not in that category.

I haven't studied the CUB line, but it is possible that, like Deere, there may be two or more countries involved in the production of some models.

If you fine tune your question, e.g. Cub 5234D vs. Deere 4110, then we can get down to brass tacks. ....


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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-14          79855


M. both brands you mention are good tractors and with good care will last for years. Myself I have Deere, but that's based on years of good relations with the dealer. Between the two I would choose the brand with the most farm based business in your aeria, they seem to have better prices and generally stay in business longer than the lawn and garden only type dealers do. The dealership that I work with seems to have had their compact tractor and lawn and garden equipment dept grow to be a major part of their operation. It kind of boils down to which dealership is close by and you feel the most comfortable working with. Frank. ....


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Abbeywoods
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 110 New England
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2004-03-14          79882


Dear M.Young, Having had several Cub Cadets in the family business I can tell you that one could do much worse. But be advised, the current Cub Cadets have absolutely NOTHING to do with International the manufacturer. Today's Cubs are manufactured for MTD by various foreign and domestic suppliers like Mitsubishi and Kioti. When the time came to buy another, I looked hard at the new 8000 series Cubs (re. Kioti DK40 & DK45) and decided on a Deere, mainly because of better features and dealer support. ....


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Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 347 New York
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2004-03-14          79903


DRankin

As good as the Cubs 5254 is, its not quite on the level of the 4100-4110...its very cost effective and I do like them
but I like my 4100 better...

Its more likely the 7284 is more a match on lift capacity but its heavier and more HP (it has a Caterpillar 28 HP diesel) than the 4110 & 4115

Duc ....


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Art White
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2004-03-14          79912


Guys, you do get carried away, the question was regarding LAWN Tractors! ....


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DRankin
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2004-03-15          79938


Whoops. ....


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lamarbur
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 93 Ma/Ct state area
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2004-03-15          79939


I got to wondering myself. I thought it was lawn tractors and posted about my real old cub model.. Guess I'll have to take a little more time in reading. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-15          79943


I guess I'm going to be the 'thinking outside the box' guy in this thread.

A neighbour of mine came over for a beer, I mean some advice, last spring, his small 7hp JD rider (rear engine) had died the fall before and he needed a replacement. The 'Big Box' stores all had the flyers out with the shiny new riding tractors on sale. He was unsure which way to go.

I suggested he needed to think about what he wanted the machine for, and what it had to do, that would dictate what was best to buy, FOR HIM.

After hearing that all he needed was turf care (he pays someone to do his snowplowing), and that faster was better (he wanted to cut in the evenings, not on weekends), I tol him that he might be better off getting a good used commercial cutter.

He found a decent Ferris ProCut60 for about half of what the rider would have cost. Cutting under trees is now a breeze and his time to do a full single cut went from 2.5 hours to just under 1 hour. He is VERY pleased with it.

Best of luck. ....


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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-03-15          79944


I currently have (5) cub cadet lawn mowers. The earliest model 1650 (mid 70's)was when International still owned it. I had that engine overhauled a year ago. I and my tennents use all of them real hard and they do break down. It seems like one is always down for something. I also have a pair of model 782's (they are the red ones from the early 80's). I had one of the engines overhauled a year ago. The other is still running with about 1700 hours on it. My newest models are 1862 & 1864. These models were just before the shaft drive was introduced. MTD owns the Cadet line and has cheapened them through the years. I have a good local dealer and the service guys know me on a first name basis. I do feel that some of the parts shouldn't break. I have allot of hours on all of them. I would give them an average to good rating.

I've never owned a Deere model. I got started with the others and keep adding because of common components. I have lots of snow blowers, rear tillers, etc. The initial purchase price of the Deere originally stopped me. Deere does have some very competitive pricing now, but can be very pricy on the high end.

If I had to start from scratch, I would strongly look at the Deere and compare price with features. I think the Cub Cadet may win again!

....


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Ducati996
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Posts: 347 New York
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2004-03-15          79966


yooperpete

I'm not sure if I'm following correctly but the shaft drive from Cub has been around way before the 1862 & 1864 models you have. I have a 1969 125 Cub and it was shaft, and they were offered earlier than that...If I recall the 1862-1864 series is from 92-94 ?? shaft drive with belt driven attachments..
The shaft coupler attachment is relatively new( Have it on my 3204), but it didnt sound like you meant that..

Duc
....


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Art White
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2004-03-15          79969


CAdet has had shaft drive on garden tractors since they started building them. It wasn't until the 2000 series that they also put a shaft drive into the lawn tractors in the mid nineties. CAdet has been owned by MTD since red cadets were built in 1982. I can't really see where they have cheapened them any more then the rest of the playing field has! They actually just build more models in an attempt to attract more of the market. ....


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yooperpete
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Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-03-16          80079


Some of the items I feel that they have cheapened is the plastic hood and side panels. They have a compression type plastic pin that hooks on the side panels. These pins break and the side panels are useless since they fall out of position. Replacement side panels are about $100.00 each. The plastic hood and decals also do not hold color well from exposure to sun from normal summer use. The decals peel and fade.

The high-vac mower decks on my 1862&64 blow the grass in a wind-row out the chute. If the grass is at all long you then have wind-rows of cut grass. These newer decks really pack with damp grass fast. The older regular decks spread the grass more evenly. You don't need to rake as often. The older decks loose their blade overlap real fast after the blades have been sharpened a number of times. The always contacting coaster wheels on these 1862&64 decks unscrew and/or break off. I've gone through about a dozen studs. The bagger packs if you are cutting green grass. The only way it works is if you mow it first and let it dry for about an hour and re-mow the entire yard. It does a good job on leaves and dry summer grass. The bags tear easy and the rubber stretch ties that hold the chute together always fall off or break.

The metal on the running boards of the 1862&64 rusts through the paint. The paint has held better on my 1650 & 782's better than the new ones.

The 1864 original tires had a diagonal tread pattern. They have poor traction on the rear while the front tires have worn out in less than 250 hours. One of my 782's has its original front tires on it yet. All still have the original rears.

The 1862&64 have power steering that turns much shorter. The hydraulic lines running it however rub through and oil sprays everywhere. The power steering and hydro make to much noise. I don't use ear protection but should.

The earlier model 782 didn't have a pre-heat shield to warm cool air going into the carb. The carb would ice up in the winter and dump gas so bad that the crankcase would fill with gas.

All of the seats tear quite easily. The 1862&62 have a bigger/taller design but were made for midgets. You can't get a size 12 between the seat and instrument console. You really have to swing your foot high and around. The seat also won't go back far enough for a 6' tall person.

I always get power lift and hydro transmission. Neither of them have ever failed. One of my 782's has an oil leak causing the mower deck to creep down all of the time.

What I meant by shaft drive is the mower attachment on the newer models does not use a belt to drive. However, I've only replaced a few belts. The deck bearing assemblies are expensive at about $125.00 each.

My point is with the older models, you could throw a bag or two of fertilizer on the hood for the next fill on the spreader without breaking it. Also one of my tractor users dumped one of my 782's upside down on top of himself in a 10' deep ditch and only broke the the hood hinges and the hour meter glass. He just cracked a few ribs.

One of my users also mowed off one of those anchors that is in the ground that a telephone guide wire is attached to. Is it soft steel or aluminum but is still 3/4 x 1". Didn't even chip the blade.

I mow several acres of ditch bank that is on a 45 degree or greater angle. The 782's have been doing it for 20 years or more. The 1862 &64's shut off because the low oil light indicator shuts them off. They are also taller tractors that tip easier.

I will say that the old 1650 can still mow swamp grass as high as the hood. The belt get kinda hot when the chute packs and the grass can't go anywhere. That unit is up at the hunting camp. When mowing this swamp land we often are mowing grass that is under water. The bearings have held up quite well.

We also haul deer feed out to the bait piles which is up to a mile away with chains and drag about 150 lbs. of beets in a stone boat. The hydro hasn't gone out yet. The black swamp sand stains the paint.

I need to do allot of service work on these units but they have gone through hell and back. My tennants and their kids run over stuff and mow stuff off all the time. Knowing what they have been through should say they are pretty good machines. ....


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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-03-16          80082


You are right on all the things that you pointed out. I'm still waiting to see the perfect tractor be made. I have found all designs to have there imperfections and believe me for some individuals one style is better then another for different reasons. I've seen decks and mulchers that do great in Florida but in NY you had better be mowing every three days or find a neighbor with a bush hog! Some of the problems you have mentioned can be cured some can't. Sorry about the size 12! ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-03-16          80086


I know your question was between Deere and Cadet, but for a lawn tractor, you may want to consider Simplicity if there is a dealer in your area. I have owned two in the past, and was amazed at the quality in the last one I owned. I found the people at Simplicity very helpfull, even when contacting the corporate website. They would call me personally to make sure I was satisfied with the answers I got. Tractors were hydrstats and shaft driven, and cut lawns perfectly. For lawn care, I would definitely recommend one. Just something to consider. ....


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beagle
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2004-03-17          80119


Just a follow up to my previuos comments; Simplicity, Massey, Agco, and Agco-Allis, are all the same company now.

Simplicity lawn equipment is manufactured in the USA. ....


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jeffro
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1 Tennessee
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2004-08-05          92809


What model Simplicity do you own? I am in the Cub Cadet vs. Simplicity mode right now. I am torn between a Simplicy Broadmoor 16 h.p. Kholer and 44" deck vs. a CC 2186 with a 20 h.p. Kholer and a 44".

What should I buy? Please, for the love of sod what should I buy? ....


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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2004-08-05          92812


Jeffro, I haven't bought a lawn tractor in a while. I bought a used gravely lawn tractor about 15 years ago and it never breaks. I used to love the Wheel Horse my father-in-law had. I also know my cousin still uses the Simplicity his Dad used as a kid. I recently saw Snapper mowers and was impressed with them.

I looked at the CC and see that it has direct drive to the transmission - no belts. I couldn't tell much about the Simplicity construction from the web site. I would favor the machine with the minimum number of belts, the strongest but simplest construction. I would also want to know where the closest place to get parts for each machine is. There aren't too many places that sell gravely parts any more. ....


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yooperpete
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Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-08-06          92867


I complain about my Cadets at times but they are really good machines. My machines are older, all have power lift and hydrostats while the latest (2) also have power steering. I have (6) of them, the oldest being about an early 70's and the latest mid 90's. I do a number of repairs on them but think my tennants are somewhat the problem. About 3 weekends ago my two tennants broke 3 lawnmowers, 2 tillers and 2 weedwackers. Cub parts are available in rural areas where the Cadet dealers also sell Case/IH tractors. If you purchase the low end machines from a mass merchant like TSC, Lowes or HomeDepot; I'm not sure about parts and repairs. In my area the local JD dealer sets up and repairs the machines for HomeDepot. His price is the same and has more models to choose from. Recently I was looking and replacing some machines, my local Cub dealer didn't want to sell me the GT 2186 but rather the GT2521 ($3499.00) The newer models I have are more comparable to the GT3204 which is about another $1,000.00 for pwer steering and hydraulic lift. If you are going to put a snow blower on it or front blade those are nice features. If you don't want to spend the extra money for an upper end unit, look for a good condition used machine. ....


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Ducati996
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Posts: 347 New York
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2004-08-09          93070


Hi yooperpete ,

You definetly have a good collection of Cub machines! I love my new Cub 3204, and there are things that it does that is so far improved over old. The cut is excellent, the snow thrower setup is vastly improved over my older 125. I think the 3204 is greatly improved over the 1862/1864 and would be their direct replacement (or the 3235)..I can mow my 2 full acres of grass in 50% less time than my old machine. More power being one reason, superior cut being another. Comfort being the biggest improvement. I think the 3000 series would be the better machine for you, since you have the 1862/1864 series already. The shaft attachment is a huge improvment over the belt & carriage of old. Less power loss and mis-aligned belts and pulleys, no shredded belts from sticks, etc..I could go on and on on their benefits but hopefully you have seen them up close...My profile has some action shots as well..

I almost positive but the 1862/1864 can use the newer synthetic blend Cub tranny oil. It will quite down as well as cool better than Hytran...it just costs a lot more

Duc ....


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