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Chief
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2005-09-02          115851


Today Govenor Bredesen authorized the use of "RED DYE" Off Road diesel in private vehicles for use on public roads in an effort to free up available supplies of diesel fuel. This executive order is in effect from today until the 15th of September 2005.

I have the email notification sent out by the TN Dept. Of Revenue but it is a .pdf file and I cannot find their link in the web for it. I can email the .pdf file to anyone who would like it for a hard copy. I called the TN Dept. Of Revenue and confirmed this information and they did indeed confirm it. If you have off road diesel stored up; now is the time to use it.




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Chief
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2005-09-02          115853


Just a follow up post to clarify that you will still have to pay sales tax on the red dye diesel or show proof of exemption. Purchases should keep and be able to show a receipt verifying that they have paid the sales tax if need be. ....


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Chief
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2005-09-04          115921


Just wanted to bump this back up to the top for my fellow Tennesseans in the event that any of you are having problems finding diesel fuel available. Supplies are running low is scattered areas, and this is an option that most folks are not aware of. ....


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Murf
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2005-09-06          115974


This will undoubtedly cause the Government down the road, so to speak.

Once it is 'legal' to run off-road diesel, it will be VERY difficult later on to say when the dyed fuel was put in the tank.

Glad they are doing something finally to ease the shortages.

Best of luck. ....


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Chief
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2005-09-06          115975


Operators of vehicles burning red dye off road diesel will still be required to show a receipt showing where and when the diesel was purchased AND that the 7% sales tax was paid. The Federal govt. has suspended restrictions on use of red dye diesel in all the states in which a state of emergency has been declared. ....


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Chief
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2005-09-06          115976


Since there are no links to the Emergency Notice annoucement in TN, here is a cut and paste of the announcement:




STATE OF TENNESSEE
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
PHIL BREDESEN ANDREW JACKSON STATE OFFICE BUILDING LOREN L. CHUMLEY
Governor NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE 37242 Commissioner

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
SEPTEMBER 2, 2005

EMERGENCY NOTICE INSTRUCTIONS ON SALE OF DYED DIESEL FUEL

Following Governor Bredesen's announcement yesterday that the state is taking steps to
increase the availability of diesel fuel in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, this is to
address Tennessee's treatment on the sale of dyed diesel fuel. The Internal Revenue
Service is expected to issue guidance for federal tax purposes later today.
The injection of red dye into diesel fuel indicates that no motor fuel tax has been paid on
the diesel. There are generally broad restrictions on the sale and use of this fuel. The
restrictions that generally apply to the sale of this dyed diesel fuel are relaxed for state
law purposes for fuel that is sold from September 1 through September 15, 2005.
Tennessee is suspending enforcement of provisions of its law governing the use of dyed
fuel for on-road purposes from now until September 15. Tennessee's inspectors will be
removed from the field and assigned to other duties. Retailers, suppliers and other
sellers of dyed fuel are expected to collect and pay over the sales tax on the sale of
dyed fuel. If tax is not collected, the consumer is expected to pay use tax on the
fuel.
As a general rule, retail sales of dyed diesel fuel will be subject to the 7.00% state sales
tax and are exempt from local sales tax. Examples of taxable sales include:

• Sales of dyed diesel to contractors for use in machinery and equipment

• Sales of dyed diesel to contract bus or other transportation providers,

• even for government contracts

• Sales of dyed diesel to loggers

• Sales of dyed diesel for use in boats, vessels, and railroad locomotives

• Sales of dyed diesel to all other consumers, for any purpose, who do not have a
sales and use tax exemption certificate

• Sales of dyed diesel for on-road use during the period established by the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency (September 1 – September 15, 2005).
However, a limited number of exemptions from the 7.00% state sales tax may apply.
Examples of exempt sales include:

• Sales of dyed diesel to farmers for use in qualified farm equipment.

• The vendor must have the farmer’s exemption certificate on file to support the
exemption.

• Sales of dyed diesel to the federal government, the state of Tennessee, and
counties and cities within Tennessee. The billing for the dyed diesel must be
made in the name of the government, paid for directly for the government and
covered by the governmental exemption certificate.

• Sales of dyed diesel to qualified exempt organizations. Again, the billing must be
made in the name of the organization, paid for by the exempt organization and
covered by the appropriate exemption certificate.

• Sales to manufacturers. Diesel-powered industrial machinery used in
the production of a product for sale on the premises of the manufacturer is subject
to a 1.50% state sales tax, but no local tax.

• The vendor must have the manufacturer’s industrial machinery authorization
certificate to support the reduced rate.

If a proper exemption is submitted, the seller DOES NOT need to collect sales tax.

A penalty will not be levied by the State of Tennessee for red dyed fuel found as long as
sales tax has been paid.

The purchaser should maintain receipts to verify that
appropriate sales tax has been paid or that an exemption applies. ....


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Chief
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2005-09-06          115977


Below is the Federal IRS announcement link.


....


Link:   IRS Waives Diesel Fuel Penalty Due to Hurricane Katrina

 

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Murf
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2005-09-06          115978


Randy, my point was not about today's use of dyed fuel, but potentially tomorrow's use of it.

Right now if them 'Revenuers' find red dye around the fuel filter of your truck, you're up the creek.

If however, you go out today, and buy a tank of dyed fuel and pay the tax, how does the DOT inspector know when that red dye got there when he stops you next December and sees red dye around the filter? Does he even bother to give you a fine knowing you can easily show that you got the dye there legally back in September?

I am not advocating, and sincerely hope that nobody does cheat, but it sure opens the door for those with their minds set on cheating the system.

Especially when some of those states involved will need every penny they can lay their hands on to rebuild, let alone not go bust without the other incomes they had come to depend on.

IMHO, cheating a Gov. under these circumstances is paramount to treason or looting.

Best of luck. ....


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Chief
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2005-09-06          115981


Murf, I understood what you meant and I agree. I think the intent was to make available as much fuel as possible. There are a lot of areas that are out of or running low on diesel fuel and I just wanted to get the word out to folks that may be in these areas that this option is available. Under normal circumstances, the fines are outrageously high and just not worth the risk. In this case, ANY fuel is better than none.

I have friends in Mississippi and they are telling me that generators, fuel, and the big item is firearms & ammunition. The looting is evidently getting very bad and folks need firearms & ammunition to protect themselves and what's left of their homes. ....


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Murf
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2005-09-06          115983


Randy, we're on the same page with this one.

I watched "The ragin' Cajun" Lt. Gen. Honor on CNN, barking orders at his troops to sling their weapons and stop pointing them at people as the convoys of food moved through NO under armed guard.

IMHO this was exactly the WRONG thing to do, a couple of bursts from the 7.62mm in the door of a Blackhawk doing a 'low & slow over' in certain areas would go along ways towards crime prevention.

Best of luck. ....


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Chief
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2005-09-06          115984


Murf,

I think we are on the same sheet as well. At the risk of highjacking my own thread; LTG Honore should be relieved of his command and court martialed. He FAILED in his mission and was criminally negligent in my opinion. New Orleans Mayor Nagin AND Louisiana Governor Blanco both should be in custody in jail awaiting trial on Negligent homicide and deriliction of duty. There are already calls for their impeachment. FEMA and the administration have some explaining to do as well.

I realize now is NOT the time for finger pointing but had the state and local govt. officials done their duties; the loss of life and property would have been TREMENDOUSLY less that what it was. The chaos and looting that ensued AFTER the hurricane had long passed did FAR more damage.

....


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Iowafun
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2005-09-06          115987


Guys, LTG Honore did what was politically the right thing to do in telling his people to point the rifles down. If they kept them up, the racism card would be played much harder than it already is. It's a no-win situation for any politician because of the demographics of New Orleans and the shear amount of people that chose to stay.

Was the whole thing FUBAR from the beginning? Yes. Could I have done a better job as Director of FEMA? Yes.

Logic dictates you get the most critical elements lined up and on alert to move at a seconds notice prior to the storm. Meaning water, food, and choppers to ferry out medical emergencies. Get all extra stuff in the on-deck circles ready to go. The buses to move evacuees should be placed on alert and be ready to go if they are needed. Not lined up days afterwards. Same goes for evacuation shelters.

Just my opinion. But my career has involved identifying the worst case scenarios and implementing contingency plans to either prevent it or to address it quickly. All plans done before the problem occurs. You won't catch it all, but it makes everything much smoother when the excrement hits the rotary cooling device. ....


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Murf
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2005-09-06          115988


I'm not trying to finger point, or hijack this thread, but the truth is shameful.

I watched LTG Honor on national (international actually) say that they moved in as fast as they could in those circumstances.

Bull #$*% !!!!!!

We were able to put people on the ground in Grendada in 4 days, UNDER ENEMY FIRE!!!

Or is the brass trying to say NO was a hotter LZ than Grenada? ....


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Iowafun
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2005-09-07          116035


Murf, in counter to your posting, one of the big problems encountered in New Orleans was the people immediately turning into basic animals upon the hurricane leaving the area. Well, not animals as animals focus on survival. Animals don't go looting jewelry stores or stealing 20 pairs of shoes or 10 pairs of designer jeans. That element is what you normally see during riots in L.A., not after a hurricane. That caught a bunch of people off guard and kept out much needed help as they feared for their safety.

It's really sad when your rescue firemen manning boats have to all go armed.

That is one argument. However, the sad truth is local, state and the feds did boff the pooch badly by a complete lack of failure to plan prior to the storm hitting the coast. Red tape is rampant and incompetant burocrats (sp?) have greatly hampered things.

It's a hurricane. They come typically to the US at least once a year or two. Same thing happens every time. The coast gets flooded and costal homes are a complete loss. Power is down. People need clean water, food and shelter until their homes can be repaired. It will be hard to get in due to massive debris. Their will be people needing medical attention. It happens with every hurricane. So preplanning should not be an issue. ....


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Chief
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2005-09-07          116038


Below is a link to a good piece in the Wall Street Journal that pretty well hits the nail on the head. ....


Link:   Blame Amid the Tragedy

 

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kwschumm
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2005-09-07          116041


People that continually rely on bureaucracy to respond quickly and correctly will continually be disappointed. What's the definition of insanity again? ....


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Murf
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2005-09-07          116043


Iowa, I think you missed the whole point of what I was trying to get across.

The gov. had roughly 3 days notice of the problems in Grenada, they had the same 3 days notice that a hurricane was threatening.

It took 4 days to have troops in Grenada and fighting, and that was 20 years ago now.

There is NO REASON for not having troops in N.O. in less than 24 hours, other than political and bureaucratic inaction and incompetence. PERIOD.

They COULD have had food, water and security in hours, if they WANTED to. ....


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DRankin
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2005-09-07          116045


Well, yes Murf, there is a reason. The Governor of LA didn't or couldn't make the decision about troops.

She waited until 24 hours AFTER the presidential visit to bring in the troops. By law the Federal Government cannot impose federal power or troops upon the the States without the consent of the State. ....


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Murf
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2005-09-07          116046


Please forgive me if my CRS is really bad today, but if I recall correctly my Constitutional lessons of so many years back now....

When the President signs a declaration of a state of emergency under the National Emergencies Act it gives the federal authorities the right to send in troops for exactly such things as evacuation, medical assistance and security. It does not cede authority over the National Guard without the signature of the Governor.

He does however, at least in theory, have the right to suspend the Constitution in it's entirety.

As the famous writer Machiavelli wrote in "The Discourses" (mandatory reading for all Officer Candidates)"Those republics which in time of danger cannot resort to a dictatorship will generally be ruined when grave occasions occur."

The "President" is under lots of checks & balances, the "Commander in Chief" is not .......

Best of luck. ....


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DRankin
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2005-09-07          116048


Well, no matter what the guy can't catch a break.

If he had jumped over the governors head he would be pilloried for abusing his authority, if he waits for the channels to work then he is too slow.

There were some amazing interviews on the news.

One guy said that the "gumint" shut off his power right in the middle of the storm just because he is black. Then they proceeded to "tourn off" his gas and then his water. Damn those people.

Another women announced in high dudgeon, that the workers in the superdome, at the height of the storm, had the colossal nerve to serve her COLD FOOD. Clearly they did not recognized the personage they were dealing with. What gall! ....


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Murf
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2005-09-08          116065


Been there, done that, got the t-shirt........

Shirt didn't 'fit' then, and still doesn't.

I liked the lady interviewed on CNN who said "It's da Gubimint's fault I'm in dis mess, I got's no cahh, welfare doan pay inuf ta keep a cahh, dey should'a gibben me a bus tikit ta' git outta here befoe da stoam hit."

Maybe she was unaware an education is free also. ....


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AV8R
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2005-09-08          116068


I saw a picture on the new from a helio-shot of "hundreds" of school busses now flooded under the water. Why did the mayor of N.O. not use these to evac the people who had no means BEFORE the storm hit? Why did the Mayor and/or Governor NOT call on FED help before the storm hit (like AL and MS)?

It's all about Democrat -vs- Republican BS, and I for one am completely sick of the negativity and obstructionism from the left to anything this president tries to do. To spin this storm for political gain is below contempt, but very few will ever see this because the news media is in the left's pocket. Frustrating beyond measure! ....


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DRankin
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2005-09-08          116070


Have you seen the published emergency plan for N.O.?

It stipulates exactly that. For any approaching storm anywhere near a Cat 3, they were supposed to gather up every bus they could lay their hands on, pack it with people, and head for the hills. AND they were supposed to start 72-90 hours BEFORE landfall.

I am quite sure that if Bush had not been on "vacation" (can you imagine a President actually getting away from it all?)they would have followed their own plans. ....


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Iowafun
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2005-09-08          116072


Murf, you and I see things actually pretty darn close. My point was about needing significant troops for security purposes rather than humanitarian purposes. There is no excuse for the way things have unfolded. The same thing and the same needs occur with every single hurricane that hits the US. So there is no excuse for not having the maximum resources on call/on deck a day or two before the storm hits. Once you know where it's going, you can better pre-stage. Once it's clear, in you go.

Murf, I saw some of the same interviews. It's the same entitlement mentality. The government "owes" me this and that because I exist. "I take no responsibility for anything I do or do not do." It's the government's fault if they forced you to leave, it's the government's fault if you ignore warnings to leave because they should have forced you to go.

One of the weakest links I see in the Louisiana mess is the governor herself. On TV interviews she looked like she was the type to curl up in a ball and cry as soon as things got tough. The Mississippi gov was out there getting it done and trying to cut the red tape. I can see why the Louisiana gov got eleected. All she had to do was play the liberal message of "it's not your fault" and "I'll take care of you so you never have to think for yourself or assume any responsibility ever again."

I was on unemployment once for about 7 weeks. The woman interviewed is right, it doesn't pay jack. Hence I was busting my butt to find another job. By golly, I did. ....


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yooperpete
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2005-09-08          116074


It is the governments fault because the people wouldn't get out and still don't want to. Michigan has offered to take thousands of homeless in and they don't come or came and have already left for a better deal. The government can't help people that don't want it.

If the government don't give you enough money to buy you a car, get a job. I don't feel sorry for those that live in risky places. Some of us get tired of spending tax dollars to rebuild where they shouldn't have been to begin with.

When it happens again and again, you are not a victim nor do you have bad luck. You're stupid!! ....


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DRankin
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2005-09-08          116075


Latest news: The Red Cross had food and water on pallets, ready to move as soon as the storm was past.

The State of Louisiana would not let them in because they didn't want to attract more people to the shelters. (!!?)

And they are still blaming Bush. ....


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Murf
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2005-09-08          116076


I don't want to sound like I'm blaming Bush either, but ......

That was exactly what I meant when I questioned why the armed forces weren't in there before the wind & rain died down.

They, unlike civilian relief agencies, don't need anyone's 'permission' to go into an area like that and deliver whatever is needed, food, water, scurity, anything. ....


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ScooterMagee
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2005-09-08          116077


I really hate to add to the misdirection of this thread, but since it's already turned the corner, ...here's something I came across, that's sure to stir the pot a little more. "Katrina Timeline". ....


Link:   Katrina Timeline

 

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yooperpete
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2005-09-08          116078


Maybe I should feel bad that I'm living my life this past week in normal fashion. Ya, I gave a donation but is that enough?

....


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shortmagnum
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2005-09-08          116079


"Katrina Timeline"

Scooter, I had to laugh at the repeated listing of Condoleeza Rice's whereabouts over the last two weeks. What was she supposed to do, stop Katrina with diplomacy? Then again, it's typical of the liberal press.
Dave ....


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HuckMeat
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2005-09-08          116080


I believe the States must specifically ask for help before the Fed's can organize and land/operate in the states area - It's part of the constitution, designed to protect the states from the Fed's. The governor of LA would not, even when prompted by Fed officials, Hence no early intervention/support.

IMHO, this mess is directly on the Gov and Mayor. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-09-08          116081


I thought this article offered an interesting take.

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State

by Robert Tracinski
Sep 02, 2005

by Robert Tracinski

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-09-08          116083


Huck, scroll back up and read my post about the National Emergencies Act.

"He does however, at least in theory, have the right to suspend the Constitution in it's entirety."

"The "President" is under lots of checks & balances, the "Commander in Chief" is not ......."

With the mere signature of President there is NO CONSTITUTION. He can suspend any or all of it.

Period.

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dieseltrctr
Join Date: Aug 2005
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2005-09-13          116328


Uhhhh.........red dyed diesel fuel.....remember :-)
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-09-13          116344


Yeah........... looks like we had just a tab bit of thread "subject drift" ehh? ;O) Anyhow, it is almost the 15th of September and the red dye diesel fuel remains in my farm tanks. I wouldn't have been able to burn the fuel up and just don't want the stress of being dipped a month later and trying to explain and looking for receipts. ....


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Archdean
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2005-09-16          116539


Interesting subject,can't wait for the class action suit filed on behalf of Trucker Bob who refuled in LA and was later ticketed in Ohio by the state DOT for showing traces of red dye, after two years the case is now being elevated to Federal District Court in St.louis with Dr.Henry Lee (O.J.fame)testifying about the genetic DNA associated with a species of Dinosaurs some 2.8 billion years old!!

Just another example of Political hacks with Red Dye Faces!!

Enjoy your day! ....


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