Go Bottommultigrade oil
 | ERNIE B.
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2000-09-07 19553
When I first bought my TC29D the dealer recomended NH 5w-40 and thats what I've been using. Several mechanics have told me that they do not use multigrade oil nor do they recommend it. I have never thought of myself as being more dense then my neighbor, but each of those fellas gave me a different explanation for what a multigrade is and how it's made. I checked web sites of Pennzoil, Shell, Texaco, and several others. All agree it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but none give an explanation of what it actually is. Here are a few things I have been told. 10w-30 is 10 weight oil that suppose to protect like 30 weight (am I actually running 5 weight in my tractor?). 10w-30 is made by mixing equal parts or 10,20 and 30 weight oil.(would not that make something like 25 weight?) I think it was at Shell's web site that I saw mixing straight 30 weight with 10w-30 would actually render something like 20w-30. On some other board I read that as it heats up 10w-30 does not become more viscous, it just does not become less vicous than a 30 weight.(Huh?) After reading through the synthetic vs dino debate I thought someone on this board may have the answer to this or be able to point me in the right direction. I'm in south central Texas so I'm more concerned with heat.
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| mbjacobs
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2000-09-07 19554
It's my understanding (though I'm no expert) that multigrade oil has additives (viscosity modifiers) that reduce the viscosity loss with increasing temperature. So a 10w30 oil has the same viscosity cold as 10 wt has cold, and the same viscosity hot as 30 wt has hot. That doesn't mean that 10w30 is more viscous hot than cold it just hasn't lost as much as straight oil. I believe that oil additives like STP are really just viscosity modifiers. It's interesting that the same "mechanics" that won't use multigrade oils will add a can of STP at every oil change. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2000-09-07 19557
Ernie, I think mbjacobs defined it pretty well. You'll find other detailed discussions on this forum on this topic. I guess there are lots of opinions, or there wouldn't be so many different products on the market. I have no technical expertise, but did grow up with a father who owned service stations and an auto parts store, had fleet management responsibilities in later life, have brothers who were mechanics and garage owners, and I've owned quite a few vehicles and experimented with lots of things. If you WANT to use a straight 30W oil and it has the proper rating for the engine you're putting it in, that'll probably be fine in Texas weather (I live in Central Texas myself). But personally I've been using 10W-30 or 10W-40 motor oil in my gasoline powered equipment for over 40 years (Quaker State the last 20 years), and I use Delo 400 15W-40 in my diesel. I'm sure there are people who think I'm using the wrong stuff, but I've never had to pull the pan or heads on ANYTHING that I've owned, and I've never owned an oil burner. I know there are some mechanics who swear by STP, and I wouldn't allow it to be put in one of my vehicles if it were free. And the same is true for almost all other oil additives. I haven't seen one yet that I didn't think was a waste of money, unless it's needed to correct a very specific problem (like sticking hydraulic lifters that was caused by improper maintenance to begin with). ....
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| ERNIE B.
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2000-09-07 19561
Thanks mbjacobs, that does clear things up, and makes more sense than anything else I've heard. The comment on using straight weight oil. I run two old dump trucks, an IH with a 6.9 L and a White with a 290 BC cummings. In both I've been using Delo 400 30wt in winter and 40wt in the summer. I was really wondering if I was doing right or if I should be using say 10w-40. So far nether has given me a reason to cuss them. BTW, I never add anything like STP to the oil, but I do add ATF to the fuel. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-09-07 19563
Ernie, personally I don't see a thing wrong with what you're doing; I just prefer the 15W-40 for year round so I don't have to worry about climate changes or which oil to use when. I buy my tractor diesel by the 55 gallon barrel, and since it sometimes lasts a few months, I just always dump a pint of Power Service fuel treatment in each barrel and so far that's the only additive I've used. But one of my brothers used to own a couple of 18-wheelers in Alaska (one Cummins powered and one Caterpillar) and he also drove several others and he's mentioned that he periodically dumped a pint of ATF in a fuel tank. He's back in Texas now and has a 200 hp Cat in a little GMC truck and I don't know whether he's still doing that or not. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2000-09-08 19590
Polimers is what they use to modify the oil for the different Vicosity.Don't know if I spelled either word at the beginning or the end of that sentance. But I don't use STP or do I like multi-weight oils. With my play toys I can watch a 10 to 20 pound oil presure drop in a short time. On my wife's car I do use multi weight oil. Muti-weght oil does work for many applications fine. ....
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| gene Purser
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2000-09-08 19606
Multi-viscosity oils were explained to me by a respected oil distributor as having pollimers(sp?)added to provide the characteristics of oils at both ends of the viscosity spectrum. The downside of the pollimers is that they are not lubricants, so any of them added to the oil are displacing lubricating oil. His statement was that it is better to stay with a single weight oil if you change to the proper weight as the weather changes. He also said that the wider the viscosity spectrum (ie 10w40 wt), the more pollimers have to be added. His opinion that a 10w30 was better if you use a multi-viscosity oil.
Of course, with the average vehicle owner unlikely to change oil with temperature changes, the advantages of the multi-viscosity oils being near the right viscosity for all seasons to get the oil flowing early to decrease startup wear is considered to outweigh the additional lube qualities of the single weights. ....
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| ERNIE B.
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2000-09-08 19611
More years back then I care to think about, I took a chemistry class and if my memory is right it's spelled polymers. A polymer, I think, is a compound that repeats itself. But thats as far as I can go with it. I guess a chemist would have to explain what it does to oil to make it multigrade. The Pennzoil site has a thing about it's ingredient Z-7, something about springs uncoiling and balls getting larger. In the great synthetic debate, else where on this board, someone mentioned oil under a microscope looks like balls. Gene, I would have automatically thought that 10w-40 would provide more protection than 10w-30, especially in a hot climate. But since you put it that way, that more polymer must be added, I can see that does not seem to be the case. ....
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| Gary D.
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2000-09-09 19625
Another thing to consider besides viscosity in multi-weights is carbon deposits above the top ring. The new multi-weights with the CG-4/SH rating have to reduce upper piston carbon deposits by about half. This gets important as the top ring in the new diesel engines gets closer to the top of the piston. The straight weights that I have seen don't meet the CG-4 spec. Also the new oils are supposed to absorb more contaminents , put them in the oil pan and keep them there for proper disposal when changing oil. My $.02. Gary D. ....
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| RickB.
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2000-09-10 19648
New Holland does not market a 5w-40 motor oil in North America. 10w-30 and 15w40 are the choices for multi-vis diesel rated oils (5w-30 is rated for gasoline engines only). ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-09-11 19690
I use a NH 0W-30 oil from my dealer in Ontario, Canada year around. I've heard that the viscosity of some winter oils actually is higher than typical 10W-30 at operating temperatures. ....
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| Michael Grogan
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2000-12-14 22435
Premium motor lubricating oils today are almost half chemicals. These chemicals control oil foaming, protect against rust, neutralize acids and many more necessary activities. Multi grade oils such as 10W-30 are essentially base 10 weight oil molecules mixed with viscosity improvers. These improvers are short chain organic molecules, that when cold, roll themselves into small balls, generally the same size as the base weight oil moleclues. When the improver molecules get hot, they open up (unfold) from ball shapes into short chain shapes. These molecular chains slow the base oil molecules ability to flow, to the extent that the motor oil mixture behaves just like a 30 weight oil when hot. The only problem with multi weignt oils is that the organic chain shaped molecules get sliced into smaller pieces, over time, as they flow over and around moving metal parts and eventually lose their ability to slow down the flow of base weight oil molicules when hot. Eventually all that remains is the base 10 weight oil molecules. The addition of modern high pressure, anti-ware chemicals still keeps moving metal parts apart even when nearly all the moliclues become the size of the base oil stock.
Today's chemistry gives us a big advantage with multi weight lubricating oils but they should be changed at the equipment manufactures recommended duty cycle. Straight grade oils don't break down but they don't lubricate as well when cold or at start up. Straight weight oils still have to be changed at the equipment manufatures duty clcle because all of the additives mixed with the oil get used up.
In summary, in cold climates, multi weight oils have a clear advantage. In warm climates, straight weight oils might offer a little more protection if you have a habit of exceeding the recommended change cycle. I hope this helps folks understand what's going on. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-12-14 22437
Excellent job on the oil. The better built oils do use a better grade of polymers so the break down doesn't happen as fast but it still can happen. Mechanical oil pressure gauges have been great to be able to watch it happen over the life of the oil change. Many compact tractors for there normal use will never have it happen. In ag tractors where they go for extended periods of time at full throttle and with full loads it is extremely important to use the best products available. It is unfortunate but the oil, like many things are built for the cars and trucks running up and down the roads at partial throttle and load unlike what tractors are. ....
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