Go Bottom

Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-04          31556


I'll be the first to admit I don't understand how diesel engines work- something about compression. Anyway, after using my B7200D pretty hard (6-7hrs!) moving fill dirt for some culverts I noticed more than a few drops of oil (or oily substance) coming from a drain tube near my front left axle. I traced this tube to the top of my engine housing. The flow varied but at one point there was a small (1-2 inch) puddle of oily liquid. I checked my oil level (while the tractor was still warm) and the dip stick showed plenty of oil (although it looked thin). Some questions: What is this tube? What is this liquid? What is a normal amount of discharge under heavy use? Should this bother me? Thanks.



Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 962
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-04          31558


Oil or oily substance? Could it have been antifreeze? As far as I'm concerned, NO oil discharge is the only thing acceptable, but if you have no coolant recovery jug (I don't know whether the 7500 has one or not), or even if you do have one and it's too full, some coolant overflow can be expected. And that's the only discharge tube I can think of in the area you mentioned. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-04          31560


This was definitely not antifreeze. It was black and felt like oil. It is coming from a blowout tube attached to the top of my crankcase. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 962
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-04          31562


OK, then my guess would be a dirty or stopped up breather that either needs cleaning or a breather element replaced. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-04          31563


That sounds like it makes sense. Is this difficult to do myself? Sounds like I need to break down and get a manual... Thank you for your help. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 962
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-04          31564


If you decide to buy the manuals, be sure you get both the "Workshop Manual" AND the parts manual. They're good together, but in my opinion if you only had one, you'd be better off with the parts manual than the shop manual. I don't know for sure about your B7200, but to get to the breather element on my B2710 you have to remove the head cover (4 nuts with a little washer under each one - don't know whether those washers would have to be replaced) and I'm pretty sure I'd want to replace the head cover gasket. Doesn't look like it would be a big job at all, but I've never had to do it on mine. And while I THINK that's likely your problem, I think you should probably ask the dealer, or a better mechanic than me. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-06          31618


Good idea to verify the breather isn't obstructed. If it's a closed crankcase system, I'd check the equivalent of the PCV valve. I'd also check the engine oil level, since excessive oil conceivably could put more oil in the rocker arm area and sling it out the breather (if the breather comes out of the rocker-arm cover). When an engine is running, the crankcase is filled with an oil mist. Blow-by can carry the mist to the breather where it will drip on the ground. Blow-by usually is accompanied by visible exhaust coming out the breather on an open system. I'd check if exhaust smoke is coming out of the breather. For a closed system, you can take the hose off at the rocker arm cover and run the engine to see if smoke comes out the rocker arm cover. If there's quite a bit of blow-by, it might be good to run a compression test to determine general engine condition. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-06          31622


OK now you guys are starting to scare me. I'll go over to my dealer and talk with them. Any idea why the flow is so variable? One minute the oil is running out and the next minute there is nothing. Also, I was unclear about the smoke. Is smoke good or bad? Its not easy to have the tractor looked at since I don't have a trailer to transport it... ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-08-07          31644


Appreciable exhaust smoke coming out the breather isn't good and is called blow-by. Blow-by can be caused by some minor problems, such as stuck rings, but often is the sign of worn piston rings that allow combustion gases passed the compression rings and oil rings. It burns some oil on the way to the crankcase and out the breather tube, which makes the smoke. On closed crankcase ventilation systems, the breather is routed back to the intake manifold through a valve so you don't see the smoke unless the tube is taken off at the rocker arm cover. If the oil on the ground is from the breather, then you have an open system and should be able to see if there is appreciable blow-by. Before there's too much worry, it would be good to find the breather and verify that the oil is coming from there. An oil leak on the engine also will puddle oil on the ground.

Even if there's blow-by, it's not cause for too much worry. An engine can run fine for years with smoke and oil coming out the breather, but reduced compression is associated with worn compression rings. If the compression gets too low, a diesel won't start very well. A compression test will indicate where the engine's at. I'd also verify if the engine oil level is correct and the right viscosity, and also if the exhaust gases are normal. A warm diesel puffs a bit of light gray smoke on acceleration. Persistent or different coloured smoke may indicate various problems. Excessive or wrong engine oil sometimes produces white exhaust.
....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-10          31728


Thanks, Tom. I took another look and think the breather may be harder to get to than I thought. My oil level looks like it might be high so I think I might drain some out and see what that does. Thanks again, hopefully this will stop my problems. My exhaust smoke is very light in amount and color so I don't think it is the rings but will have a compression test done when I figure out how to get my tractor to the dealer. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-17          31850


I drained out almost 2 quarts of oil! Not a good sign. The oil out of the breather tube turned to white smoke which probably is not a good sign. However, I ran the tractor for awhile and the smoke seemed to dissipate. Before I do anything drastic I think I'm going to leave it alone and see what happens.
Has anyone used any oil additives that they would suggest in case my problem has not gone away? ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-09-20          31898


Leaving it to see what happens seems like a pretty good idea. White exhaust smoke often is a result of excessive or wrong oil viscosity. I’d verify that the viscosity is correct as well. When corrected, the condition may take a little time to clear. Marvel Mystery Oil (or something like that) is an additive that gets good comments. I haven't used it, but I think it is supposed to be pretty good at 'degunking' an engine, which can free stuck rings etc. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-10-25          32662


The problem seems to be persisting. I drained the oil and have been checking it regularly. The level seems to be increasing which makes me feel strongly that diesel fuel is continuing to get into engine. It also is not starting very well initially and unless the new battery is draining, I suspect this is not a good sign. In your opinion, should I try to fix the fuel problem by replacing the fuel transfer pump or should I take it in for a compression test to see if I have a problem with the rings? Once it starts it runs well and will restart pretty easily. How much can I expect to pay if the rings are bad?
Thanks. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
BillBass
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 190 North Texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-10-25          32667


I am guessing that you are at the point of needing a compression check. For the oil level to be rising would require a lot of diesel to be leaking by. Remember that diesels work on spontaneous combustion of the diesel and air in the cylinder when it is compressed to the point that the temperature in the cyclinder rises above the auto-ignition point of the fuel/air mixture (increase in pressure = increase in temperature, I didn't sleep thru all of physics). It is possible that one or more cylinders have such little compression that no ignition is occuring. That would result in liquid fuel in the cylinder. If the rings were that bad, the compression stroke would then force the liquid thru the leaky rings. That would also be decreasing the viscosity of your oil. That's not good either. You would end up with more wear on all lubed parts. Better have it checked. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-10-26          32668


Doesn't sound good. Too bad. About the only other easy fix idea that comes to mind is hung valves or low clearance. Compression loss can come from worn rings or valves, but in a worn engine usually both need attention. There would be a small possibility that no valve clearance is present on one or more valves, which would prevent a valve from seating. Hung or burnt valves and seats would be a bit difficult to verify, but the clearances are easy enough to check. To set them, specs and a diagram of which are input and which are output valves are needed, but simply verifying that clearance is present is fairly easy. The most difficult part is trying to save the gasket on some engines. Even so, this is a clutching at straw idea. The presence of blow-by and oil discharge from the breather does sound like rings are involved. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-10-26          32676


I guess this is the risk of buying a used tractor.
I will contact the dealers in my area (who I am not sure I trust) and keep you posted. Wish me luck and thanks for all the input at least I can converse intelligently with the snake charmers. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-10-27          32683


I guess that 'Keep the faith' is all I can say. There's a chance a compression test would be OK and the main problem is the injectors. A worn engine can run pretty good for years, at least until the compression gets so low that it won't start. Switching to #1 diesel might help some since it has a lower flash point and starts a little easier. Compression gauges aren’t very expensive--probably cheaper than transporting the tractor—and the test is pretty easy although injectors have to be removed. The problem is what to do with the information if you aren’t intending to do engine work yourself. You might know what the problem is, but you’d still have to transport the tractor to get it fixed. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-10-27          32685


You could have injectors that are leaking by. You might want to try some diesel injector cleaner in your fuel. The engines need a good pattern on there spray and if they don't have it, while it will ruin an engine. How many hours are on the tractor? The other factor that enters in is the type of running it had in the past. Was it only used to mow? or did it maybe have some extensive idle time. How is the antifreeze level staying? The white could be water in the oil. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Hans Top
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-10-27          32696


I am not that familiar with the kubota engine however if the fuel injection pump is gear driven and uses engine oil for lubrication do not discard the fact that fuel could be getting into the crankcase through seal past the injector pump drive shaft. This also goes for the passing diaphrams on the fuel supply pump driven from the camshaft if applicable. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Rich Luhr
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-10-30          32774


A friend of mine just had this exact same problem. Turns out there are two common reasons for this. (1) Fuel injection pump is leaking; (2) Hydraulic pump is leaking. Both, when leaking, can force fluid into the oil sump, which results in the symptoms you are having. Both are moderately expensive fixes ($300-800 depending on model) but both can be readily repaired without dismembering the engine. You just remove the pump and have it replaced or rebuilt as appropriate.

You definitely want to change the oil ASAP and get this problem looked at right away. I would not play around with injector cleaners and such, since the foreign fluid is effectively diluting your crankcase oil at a rapid rate (2 qts!?). This could have much worse consequences for your engine if you wait -- whereas a pump replacement might be a relatively painless fix -- assuming your engine is still OK at this point. Good luck

--- Rich ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-10-30          32775


The injection pump or hydraulic has not been a problem that is normal, but then this desn't seem normal anyway. To check the hydraulic oil and moniter that will tell you if it is that. I have seen different pumps like the old rosa-masters that tend to take out the seal between the engine and pump that does that quite often. A quick oil sample would tell you what you have going on there. To just keep draining the excess oil off is not good, change it and send a sample to a lab and have them check it. They probably will want to know what oil you are useing or a sample of it. I would say your contamination is your biggest problem. you will know exactly where and what area to fix after you do the sample. I would think you could tell by smelling at this point as to your problem for the amount of contamination you are refering to. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-12-17          33874


Sorry to beat a dead horse into the ground. I want to try the injection pump first before moving into the injectors and engine. On a B7200D does anyone know where it is located. There is a round metal housing on the injector housing downline from the filter. Is this it? (I know, I need a manual!) Thanks again. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-12-18          33888


I guess the idea is to remove the pump and take it to a shop. That would be easier than taking the whole tractor. I don't think I'd want to remove an injector pump without having a manual. Some of the procedures are pretty specific. For example, on my 1710 an index mark is made across the pump base and engine mount if the same pump is going to be remounted. The mark enables getting the pump back on in exactly the same place or the pump timing may change. There is a different mounting procedure if a different pump is used. Some pumps may mount using shims. Anyway there's all sorts of possible complications involved in just taking off the injector pump. It might be easier to remove the injectors than the pump.

A manual might also give proper safety precautions. For example, injector lines in an engine that's not running may have around 2,000 lbs. pressure in the line. That's plenty of pressure to penetrate skin or an eye if fittings are taken off without caution.

If it were me, I'd want to be certain whether the oil is being diluted with hydraulic oil or diesel before tearing things down. Coolant is another possibility, but coolant in the oil should be apparent and the rad level is easy to monitor.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall that diesel will separate from engine oil if left standing for awhile. That goes against my common sense, but it would be a good test. Maybe somebody knows. Similarly, I don't know if sniffing an oil sample and looking at the viscosity is a reliable way of telling diesel from hydraulic oil dilution.
....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-12-19          33906


Your best bet for what you are into is to take it to a shop. That is unless you have a freind that is familiar with this type work. You might very well just need the seal on the pump drive shaft. You could wind up with more problems if you put the pump in out of time. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
FarmerWannabe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-12-19          33910


You'd think someone as ignorant as I am wouldn't be such a stubborn ass.
I went and checked my hydraulic fluid and surprise, it was not full. This makes me very suspicious that it is hydraulic fluid and not fuel getting into the engine. I think I am going to load her up and take her into the shop like everyone told me 20+ posts ago. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thank you for your patience and insight. ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-12-19          33913


Many hydraulic pumps drive off the side of the engine and would be able to leak oil into the crankcase. Now if it was that pump you wanted to play with, I would say let it rip! ....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Oil discharge

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-12-20          33917


Stubborn isn't really bad, but stubborn should be complimented with manuals 'cause ignorant and stubborn can be bad--really bad.

Among other things, manual disassembly procedures sometimes say things like 'use special tool #.' It really helps to know if you've got to figure out a way to work around a need for special tools before tackling something. Some things just can't be done without the tool, and nobody has them except shops. I used to get the results back in the motorcycle trade. They were called 'basket cases' because the partially disassembled motorcycles showed up in baskets and boxes. The owners weren't too happy--neither were the mechanics.

Still, dealing with a hydraulic pump should be manageable, although there still are procedures. I noticed my manual says nothing about priming the pump for reassembly, but many older farm tractors did require pumps to be primed. I'd have to separate the priority valve from the pump on my 1710, if your tractor has power steering there may or may not be a priority valve that may or may not be mounted on the pump. Anyway, this is an illustration that there still can be complications to be aware of.

The hydraulics oil level isn't a good way to determine the presence of a leak unless there is certainty that the oil was both topped up and later checked while the 3ph and loader are fully retracted. Hang in there eh.


....


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


   Go Top


Share This







Member Login