Go Bottomoil filter quality study-good reading
 | treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 251 Wisconsin 
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2002-01-19 34712
This site has a lot of good reading on oil filters.
Link: oil filter study
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 | TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2002-01-20 34770
Yes! I forget who it was that did a lot of work researching filters, cutting them in half etc. a couple of years ago. There's also some pretty good reading about diesel fuel in other threads. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-01-20 34778
Nice find! These are the reasons to look at factory originals as we hope they watch the manufacturer once in a while. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-01-20 34792
Interesting study although not conclusive. I can say I learned anything I did not know, but I did not read it all. Unfortunately I have been around filtration a long time.
Looks like I will stick to the Autozone, filters. It did confirm my observation that the Mobil 1 and regular Autozone are the same, at least for my Dodge fuel burner. The Mobil 1 has a nice paint job and is 2x the price. ....
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| wyante
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-03-05 36107
It's interesting that the Amsoil SDF-15 has been a subject of the
SAE HS806 test in a different periodical. It proved superior
over Mobil,Pure 1,HardDr,AC,Napa,Fram,and Wix, in both
efficiency and capacity. I can provide the specs and
filters to whoever is interested. ....
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| ladysmithgwl
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-06-12 39508
Do you think aftermarket filters (Wix, NAPA, etc.) are as good as the OEM filters? I know most manufacturers recommend OEM filters. They usually state you should use OEM filters because of their "pressure valve" in the filter. Fact or fiction? ....
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 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2002-06-12 39509
Interesting reading. After looking over the various pictures of filters and reading the descriptions, it appears to me that the new "made in US" filter for my 2910 is a WIX. Not a bad thing since the OEM's were a buck cheaper, believe it or not. ....
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| ptwat
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 4 Georgia
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2002-06-28 39897
wyante,
I would like to get your information about the amsoil filter.
Tom ....
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma 
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2002-06-28 39898
Let me tell you this, even if you don't visit the website. Fram and any other brand they produce is JUNK. I know of 2 people that had major engine damage due to Fram oil filters. One is my brother. He lost all oil presure and had to have his engine rebuilt. The other is a guy I used to work with. The same thing happened but not as bad. He had to have his cam and cam bearings replaced. The mechanic sent the filter back to Fram but never heard a word from them. Their guarantee ain't woth sh**.
Billy ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-06-29 39913
I hate it when you politically correct guys beat around the bush. Billy, just tell us what you really think.
So what happened anyway? Did a chunk of filter break off and plug up an oil passage?
Some years ago Consumers Reports tested oil filters and Fram came out on top. But they were testing filtering ability, capacity and flow. Don't think they tested for longevity or long-term integrity.
Might be another arguement for OEM filters here.
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| Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2002-06-29 39916
On my brother's truck it would lose all oil presure. If you shut the engine off for a few minutes and restart it, it would have oil presure for a few minutes. I figure the element was callasping but I don't know. I do know he changed filters and had good presure but the engine sounded like crap and had to be rebuilt.
The friend's truck was something simular, only not as bad. All it did was starve the engine of oil enough to run the cam and cam bearings.
I do believe Fram was a top notch company at one time. When they started making cheap filters so they could get Wal-Mart's business, that's when things changed.
Companies will do almost anything to get Wal-Mart's business. Even commit suicide.
Billy ....
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| Dan G.
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 20 Southern New Jersey
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2002-06-29 39917
I too agree Fram is Junk. A friends 68 Z/28 engine self destructed when his filter internally colapsed. My daughter's car was knocking to beat the band! Changed the filter ( I noticed it wasn't hot) and the car quieted right down.
My big block Belvedere Ballooned a Fram filter casing. It runs 80lbs. pressure at 6500 RPM. Since I've made the switch to Amsoil (years ago)I have had ZERO problems and no real repairs to speak of.
If you don't know about Amsoil products, do yourself a BIG favor and find out! I use it in everything from my chainsaw, lawnmower, tractors, cars, trucks and Hot Rods! Engine, Trans & rears! ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-06-29 39919
Fram is part of Allied Signal and did have a good reputation years ago. I am sure that they are the OEM supplier for some auto manufactures. GM was a big buyer in the past.
It was common knowledge years ago that Fram would remove the back flow valve in some of their filters. This reduces the back pressure in the filter but means that the engine can be starved for oil during the critical start up period. One of the reasons you always fill the filter when you are changing the oil.
It is more important for engines where the filter is not vertical.
Personally I was not impressed with the filter element material used by Fram and have not used a Fram filter in maybe 15 or 20 years.
I have looked at the better filters line Fram is now selling and as the posted study show these filters are close to the competition.
I guess I am confused as to why someone thinks the OEM is better than another supplier that is using their name.
If you look at eariler threads much of this info is covered, but in a filter there are 4 basic thing to consider.
1) Quality of the filter media.
Is the media going to flush a lot of fibers into the system? (to clog oil journals) Does it look fluffy?
Mean pore size - must be measures
Maximum pore size - must be measure
2) Area of media. (Dirt holding capacity)
How many pleats in the media can you see? More is better to a point.
3) Seal
As many engines are lost due to oil leaks as to bad filters.
Better filters use more expensive silicon rubber seals, rather than Viton or Buna-N. Buna-N is the older material and will harded between changes in contact with oil.
4) Can construction.
Back flow preventor? Can thickness? Threads? Top and bottom rolled seal?
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-06-29 39922
I guess my thinking is if an OEM filter implodes and ruins an engine, maybe you might have more recourse than going to someone like Fram with your hat in your hand. But now that I read what I wrote, maybe not. At least you might be more likely to get the proper flow (and backflow) characteristics for your particular engine. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-06-30 39928
I guess that the use of an OEM filter may provide more leverage, but I would not guarantee it. I am sure that they would push the claim back on the manufacturer and if you installed it your self I don't know what would happen.
Mr Goodwrench changed the oil in a friends car once and the filter seal was defective. The engine flushed itself of oil while she was on the road and toasted the engine. Despite the fact the car was under waranty she still had a fight to get the engine replaced.
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-06-30 39933
Dan, I was an Amsoil dealer twenty years ago. We had a parting of the ways because I tried to put the products into a retail store setting. That was considered bad form back then, not sure how they view it now.
The oils gave sterling performance with one exception: using the synthetic gear lube in manual transmissions. After wrecking the syncros in three transmissions, I quit using it for that application. It worked fine in rear axles.
I don't know if it was those occasional –35 degree mornings or the fact that the stuff was too slick and a little more friction was needed to operate the internals of the transmissions properly. Whatever. When other synthetics became readily available down the block at a better price and I didn’t have to drive 60 miles roundtrip to get oil, it was an easy decision to make. ....
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| Dan G.
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 20 Southern New Jersey
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2002-06-30 39937
Mark,
That is one I have had no experience with. You may be right about the syncros needing some friction. However we used to grind down every other syncro tooth in the old days for faster shifts and most times clutchless shifts. We had less friction with less teeth but the trans was for racing only. (never tried it on the street)As I recall we used strait 30w too for less friction. But these where only used a 1/4 mile at a time. I wasn't smart enough to go fast AND turn left too!
All the high dollar street and racing trannys today work well with synethics.
I am not disputing that you had problems, but so did the guys that ran Top Loaders and Muncies with regular gear oil!
That is why so many racers adapted the Mopar A-833 to fit GM or Ford!
Since you where a dealer you know never to use Amsoil in a brand new engine until they are broke in. It doesn't allow enough friction to let the rings seat properly. Only after a few dyno pulls do we add the synethics.
I am sure that like us the synethics have gotten better with age!
There may be better/more expensive synethics out there like Royal Purple, but why change a sure thing?
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-06-30 39941
I never knew back then what the problem was. I recently read on the Red line Oil website about the need to balance the slippery synthetic with some friction modifiers to make manual transmissions shift properly. ....
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