Go BottomMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
 | THinVa
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14 Staunton, Virginia 
|
2003-01-29 48383
I just started looking at tractors and like most people I'm on a budget. I was looking at JD790, Kubota 2600DT, Boomer TC29D, KubotaL2600, Mahindra2810 and the Century all 4WD with FEL. I liked the last two because of their weights, which is more than any of the 3 top compacts. I was expecting the Mahindra and Century to be less expensive then any of the other above mentioned makes but the local dealer in Virginia priced them about the same (within $500)Price=14800w/FEL. Does this sound right???
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| soarkrebel
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 15 arkansas
|
2003-01-30 48389
THinVa , i bought a kubota L3000dt w/ FEL,woods BB60C, disc and boxblade for about $300 more than you can get the mahindra for. Shop around some more. you can get a better deal than that. i didnt rush and i think that helped.
also for me i thought about what tractors have been around . i never considered a brand i hadnt any knowledge of. for me it was between kubota , new holland, and john deere. i saw some massey fergusons i would have considered one.
I stopped today at a guy that sells implements in his front yard. i was looking at some blades he had and he had a mitsubishi tractor. he said he can't get rid of it.
I just thought about who was going to be around in a few years before i paid good money for something. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
 | marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
 Pics
|
2003-01-30 48405
The Mahindra was Korean built tractor so was the century. Mahindra now has the Indian built comapcts available for a great savings. As far as Quality, the Koreans especially in the Branson and Century (KUKJE) line are exceeding that of Kubota. They are building heavier tractors and are making them with the same features that are found in Kubota. They also stock more parts stateside than the big orange. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| wdbg1046
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 15 scituate, rhode island
|
2003-01-30 48407
I bought a Century 2028 with FEL for $15000. I have owned Kubota and NH. This machine out performes both of them in all respects. The 2028 came without the draft control ; I complained and they gave me a 3035 for $325.00 more. All the while letting me use the 2028 until the 3035 came in. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| wdbg1046
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 15 scituate, rhode island
|
2003-01-30 48411
Correction: It was a 2535 not a 2028. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| THinVa
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14 Staunton, Virginia
|
2003-01-30 48419
Thanks for all the input. I know that Century and Mahindra don't have the name recognigtion like that of the big three. Century just looks better made then the others; and Mahindra matchs if not exceeds the others in the manufactures specs, plus they have a great finance deal. I would appreciate any negative input involving Mahindra or Century I started looking at the compact tractors with no preconceived ideas of which was better. The dealers in this area have excellent reputations for service but I think all their tractors are more expensive than elsewhere. How far from home does anyone recommend to go to find the better deal. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| DavesTractor
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 148 Red Bluff, California
|
2003-01-30 48441
Century and Branson are both built in South Korea by Kukje. Kind of like Chevy and GMC pickups, you won't find much difference. Loaders are different, but both are real nice. Check them out as well. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| wdbg1046
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 15 scituate, rhode island
|
2003-01-31 48452
When you look at Mahindra be sure to notice where the fuel pump and fuel lines are located. Getting on and off a Century was easier than the Mahindra, the deck seemed to have more room. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Jim Flower
Join Date: Posts: 1
|
2003-02-11 49062
Heavier and better built than JD and Kubota? I don't think so. I think someone is relying to much on specs and not on common sense. Figures never lie, but liers figure they say. I remember in year past the big thing was "Oh JD weighs more than Bota" and blah blah blah. In the specs they did, but of course you find out later that the Deere was weighed as "field ready" whatever that means. Wheels on and loaded, operator in seat, full tank of fuel, other weight added, who knows for sure what else. The bota's were weighed without wheels or anything. It was all a big marketing game for JD. They seem to be getting away from that now with the new brochures I've seen and what do you know, they are getting lighter too.
You'd better do some test driving and demoing before you buy something from a brochure. Do some serious research before you buy anything. I got an Kubota M9000 and opted for the ALO Quicke loader. Turns out they are OEM in Canada and there are some really nice features that the kubota FEL doesn't offer. The same loader on a JD costs more...why? Cause you have to buy a subframe for the JD. They aren't built as tough is the reason ALO gives.
Either way, JD, NH, and Bota will be around a long time. They control around 80-85% of the market and all the other guys are fighting over the table scraps. Parts and Service won't be a problem anywhere. That is a bunch of crap about the big orange not stocking as many parts over here. What a joke. Maybe they break down so much they HAVE to keep more parts, but I doubt it.
IF YOU SKIMMED THIS HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE:
Try them ALL out. Really try them out, don't just drive them a little. Push into some heavy piles, pull some heavy attachments, do some heavy work. Don't buy from a brochure. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
Pics
|
2003-02-11 49070
There is good weight and bad weight for tractors. To much is bad as it costs you fuel every time you move. To much weight added might exceed the manufactureres recommendations and hurt the life of the drive train. The least weight that can get the job done on any chassis is the best. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| THinVa
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14 Staunton, Virginia
|
2003-02-12 49133
I have no intention of buying something based on the brochures, but when one starts comparing numbers something doesn't add up. I don't care about what everyone else is buying and who is selling the most tractors (I'm not buying stocks in their companies) I just want to know how they hold up under normal wear and tear. Has anyone heard horror stories about any of the CUTs. I do intend to test each tractor and will make a final decision after that, but I would still like to know if any particular brand is plaqued with problems after a couple hundred hours use. I have never owned a tractor but all my farmer neighbors insist on JD. They base their opinion of the years of faithful service of their huge farm tractor. I think that the Compact JD is a totally different animal then the huge JD farm tractor and you really can't compare the two. Parts and service isn't an issue for me on any of the brands mentioned previously. I have about 5 local dealers within 30 miles that have excellent reputations for parts and service. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| slowrev
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 231 Winchester , KY
|
2003-02-12 49141
THinVa,
You have it right, however many of those that frequent this board seem to be a bit color impaired/biased in their opinions on tractors. We also of course have some dealers amd salespersons on here, of course their viwepoints will be a bit biased, and rightfully so.
You seem to be following the right course in your tractor selection. Check out the size and features that you need/want and pick a Japanese or Korean CUT. Who knows you might get a bit color blinded in your tractor color as well :)
INMHO. There is not a lot of difference between the Japanese and korean built compacts. The main difference seems to be price. Yes JD is a big company and long established and you can get most parts you need, however they seem to be more expensive on their parts than other brands too. JD,NH,Kubota,Kioti,Branson, Mihandra, and several variants I have left out All seem to be pretty good quality machines.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-02-12 49162
I pretty much back up what slowrev says. None of the brands you're looking at have any problems reported that could be of concern. Most have two or three year warranty anyway. Pretty much what there is to look at is major differences and minor differences. To me, biggest major difference is how comfortable are you on the machine? How easy to get off and on? How logical are the controls? Based on your choice, I take it you don't want a hydro. If you're doing frequent loader work and don't have a hydro you should at least get a shuttle shift. That eliminates JD and Kubota in these models. Do you use a tiller? If so, what is the slowest speed you can go?? Some are 1/4 mph others are over 1. The slower the better for tilling. I would recommend a live if not independent PTO if mowing or bush hogging. Scratch Kubota again in the model you're looking at! Other features that aren't as terminal are extra SCV ports, always can be added. Adjustable draft links, draft control, again an add on, but should be factored in the price.
Personal OPINION ONLY!! In the 30HP models you're looking at, I like the Century with the C50 loader. The loader is top notch! Should you get a backhoe someday that is top notch also! It is easy to get off and on, the controls are all logical. Is it perfect?? Nope! If I made it would I change some things YES! But those last statements can be made about all of them. You just have to weigh what in YOUR opinion offers the best balance for YOU!
Have fun looking!
Pacesetter ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| THinVa
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14 Staunton, Virginia
|
2003-02-12 49164
Pacesetter,
I have also added Massey Ferguson 1433 to my list. I really have alot of tractors to test drive. You are correct, I am not interested in hydro but would like shuttle shift. One of my primary projects is to turn about 3 acres of woods into pasture (leaving the larger trees for shade), so I will be using a FEL, PTO chipper/shredder, and brush hog. I know I should be trying them out in the cold weather, but I like to stay in by the fire unless ablsolutely necessary and will leave the testing to warmer weather.
Everyone's input has given me alot to think about and definately made me a more informed consumer.
Thanks,
THinVa
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-02-12 49170
When I checked out Massey, the 1428V was about $1K more than the group you're looking at now. I liked the ones I looked at a lot and the dealer was great, but I didn't like the pricing. In your price and HP range I really think the three from Korea, Mahindra, Branson and Century are your best bet. One other possibility is the New Holland TC30. It's probably the most user friendly of the big three economy tractors. One thing I would look into is the PTO HP requirements of the chipper you intend on using. PTO HP is less than the ratings you see for engine power.
pacesetter ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| THinVa
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14 Staunton, Virginia
|
2003-02-13 49196
Pacesetter,
I have been looking at Bear cat and Goossen chippers both are 5" chippers/shredders and require PTO hp ratings from 13 to 40. So I quess it all depends on what you want to put through the chipper. I just want to get rid of limbs and anything over 3" will become firewood.
Here is a question for all the Mahindra fans. I just spoke with a Branson dealer today and he told me to stay away from Mahindras because "most of them are refurbished and you don't know if you are getting something that was used for 15 years then sent back to the factor and refurbished and sold as new". Is the Branson dealer full of it or is this true? I have heard of gray market tractors and asked him if this is what he was talking about and he said it was similar.
THinVa ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| lamarbur
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 93 Ma/Ct state area
|
2003-02-13 49205
this is a big line of crap. I have a fairly new Mahindra and it isn't refurbished, painted over used eqipment. All this tells me is your local yocal Branson dealer wants you to buy his machine cause it is better than the competition.
In fact. send me that dealers name and number, I'd like to have a chat with him. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Woodbeef
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 63 Canada
|
2003-02-14 49227
hey THinVA,
Your Branson dealer said what........Man I'm still rolling around laughing about that one!! It never ceases to amaze me what some people will try and tell you to make a sale!
I'd start to wonder about just what your friendly local Branson dealer is trying to foist upon you!!
First off,take a look at the new Mahindras yourself,then make your own desicions. Once you see the 10 series I do not think that there is anyway to imagine that this series is 15 years old to begin with,let alone a refurb!!
Might just be that your Branson dealer is a tad bit scared of the competition there,eh?
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| slowrev
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 231 Winchester , KY
|
2003-02-14 49233
I don't think I would be very impressed with that Branson dealer. What might he say/do when you have a service/warranty issue on a tractor he sold ?
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| DavesTractor
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 148 Red Bluff, California
|
2003-02-14 49237
Any Branson dealer worth his salt will know at least a little about the other Korean lines. TYM/Mahindra is a good tractor, fairly equivalent to the Branson/Century and the Kioti. I sell Branson's, but can't throw rocks at the other guys either. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| slowrev
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 231 Winchester , KY
|
2003-02-14 49252
Any good salesman needs to believe in his product and sale because of its merits. Selling by running down the competition shows the customers a lack of confidence in your own product and will negatively effect sales. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| THinVa
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14 Staunton, Virginia
|
2003-02-14 49258
I thought this guy was feeding me a line. At first I didn't consider Branson because there wasn't a dealer nearby, so I found a dealer about 50 miles away and decided to give him a call, unfortunately he went the wrong direction with the sale. Glad I found out now instead of when I had a problem. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-02-15 49277
WOW! Can't imagine anyone making up anything so blatant. Nothing wrong with his tractors, but I'd sure stay away from the dealer!
Pacesetter ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Woodbeef
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 63 Canada
|
2003-02-23 49817
Huh,I never knew that Mahindra was hurting Branson that much!! I'd a figured the majors would be the ones hearing footsteps more so then the others. ....
Link: Mahindra US site
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-02-23 49818
I think the Mahindra, Century, Branson dealers are so spotty right now, I can't imagine any one hurting another. I had to go 100 miles to see a Century, then low and behold there was a Branson dealer up the street. I'd love to see a Mahindra, but the dealer is almost twice as far as Century! Really not a bad idea to cluster. Similar to the "Automiles" where car dealers cluster together.
Pacesetter ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| EvetsNielk
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 9 central Ohio
|
2003-05-27 55730
I'm kind of in the same boat as THinVa.
I've looked at the Mahindra 2810 & Kubota B7800.
Now, to really muddy things up. Can anyone comment on the Eicher 364EX. I haven't driven one yet, just alot of online research.
Any and all input is appreciated.
Thanks,
Evets ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-05-27 55742
As I understand it, made in India, air cooled diesel, maybe one or two dealers in New England. I personally wouldn't get too excited!
Pacesetter ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
Pics
|
2003-05-27 55746
Well, being the rep and all, I'm biased but the 364 is the most solid value on the market. Pacesetter doesn't quite understand that Eicher has been around longer than Mahindra and Kubota. They have been here since 97 and in those years have not had a single reported engine failure with tractors in warranty or out of warranty. They are covered by a 2 year, unlimited hour warranty. First year is bumper to bumper and second is powertrain only.
Yes, they are aircooled, but come featured with powersteering live PTO and the highest torque ratings in its class. Don't forget draft control as well. Tipping the scales at 4000 lbs, it is a stable, solid handling tractor. Many owners say that the tractors have the best "feel" that they have ever tried. They aren't platform though neither are they tunnel mount. It is a relatively low tunnel and as you can see in the ad to the right seating is higher above the dash for better visibility. List price 9995. Plenty of dealers will work with that price. Even if they won't nothing competes for the price. Check out my pics! These are real owners and real world conditions. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
Pics
|
2003-05-27 55748
I guess the price is right. With the german connection are the engines related to the Duetz? ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-05-27 55752
Well, being the rep and all, I'm biased but the 364 is the most solid value on the market.
I NEVER MET A REP THAT DIDN'T FEEL THAT WAY ABOUT HIS PRODUCT(S) :-)
Pacesetter doesn't quite understand that Eicher has been around longer than Mahindra and Kubota.
AROUND WHERE? NOT THE U.S. FORD HAS BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN BMW, WHAT DOES THAT PROOVE?
They have been here since 97 and in those years have not had a single reported engine failure with tractors in warranty or out of warranty. They are covered by a 2 year, unlimited hour warranty. First year is bumper to bumper and second is powertrain only.
MORE THAN THE SIX MONTHS TYPICAL OF A CHINESE TRACTOR, BUT NOT AS GOOD AS MOST OTHER TRACTORS. I HAVE TWO YEAR BUMPER TO BUMPER INCLUDING THE FEL ON MY CENTURY. NH HAS THREE YEAR POWERTRAIN.
Yes, they are aircooled,
I DON'T KNOW OF ANY AIR COOLED ENGINES THAT ARE AS RELIABLE OR QUIET AS LIQUID COOLED. SIX YEARS IS STILL REALLY TOO NEW TO HAVE PUT THEM TO THE TEST. ALL OF THE BETTER MODELS OF HONDA, JD, SIMPLICITY LAWN/GARDEN TRACTORS ARE LIQUID COOLED. MORE AND MORE MOTORCYCLES ARE LIQUID COOLED. NO OTHER CUT OR UTILITY TRACTOR IS AIR COOLED THAT I KNOW OF, AT LEAST FOR SALE IN THE U.S. TELLS YOU SOMETHING
but come featured with powersteering live PTO and the highest torque ratings in its class. Don't forget draft control as well. Tipping the scales at 4000 lbs, it is a stable, solid handling tractor. Many owners say that the tractors have the best "feel" that they have ever tried. They aren't platform though neither are they tunnel mount. It is a relatively low tunnel and as you can see in the ad to the right seating is higher above the dash for better visibility.
I HAVE ALL THAT AND I HAVE A PLATFORM NO TUNNEL - AS IN NONE, NOT RELATIVELY LOW. HOW MANY CYLINDERS? HOW MANY SPEEDS? SHUTTLE? FULL SYNCRO? HYDRAULIC SPECS? 3-PT LIFT SPECS? FEL SPECS? ALL THINGS TO THINK ABOUT THAT AREN'T MENTIONED
List price 9995. Plenty of dealers will work with that price. Even if they won't nothing competes for the price.
IF THAT'S 4WD AND FEL, NOT BAD. IF NOT HOW MUCH FOR 4WD, FEL? IF AROUND $15K, YOU'RE CLOSE TO THE KOREANS. SEEMS TO COMPETE WITH THE CHINESE AND WITH THE WARRANTY DESERVES MORE CONSIDERATION THAN THEY DO IN MY OPINION. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.
Check out my pics! These are real owners and real world conditions.
ANY OWNERS OUT THERE CARE TO CHIME IN ON YOUR EXPERIENCES?
PACESETTER
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
Pics
|
2003-05-28 55785
Pacesetter,
Listen, I can't fault you for your inexperience. But I can for your curtness. I have sold other brands, I had a choice when I took this job. I could have sold other products, but after checking out Eicher and the company distributing them, I went to work for them. 5 Years without any engine problems is more than what Branson can say and Kubota. I know this because I have dealers that sell both. I have seen new practically new tractors with problems. It doesn't mean that Kubota or Branson is bad. But it does mean that Eicher does an excellent job in quality control. If you doubt it, don't drive your american made vehicle or name brand tractor. They provide gears for GM, Ford,Jeep, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, New Holland Massey,Mahindra, Tafe, Long, and other tractors. Carraro and Dana Spicer use their gears as well. My F-250 and many f-350 trucks carry rear ends with gears manufactured by Eicher. GM has similar arrangements.
They are not the prettiest tractors on the market, but again the best valued. When I said 9995, I meant w/o front end loader, w/o 4wd. With Front end loader a mere 13,700 with a lift height of 10'3" and lift capacity of 2750 lbs. and a breakout of 4000 lbs. Approaching Korean price? NO! Remeber, this is their selling price not list. I have quoted list here. I just happen to know what dealer cost is on the Korean brands. I keep up with it average dealer cost is 3000 dollars more than the Eichers on comparable HP. In fact, I think that my Branson and century dealers are selling nearly as many Eichers as they do their other tractors. If you want, I could post the contents of a thankyou letter sent to a dealer for selling him such a "quality" tractor. It is easy not to believe. Harder to believe . This is true on any subject. But it takes work to investigate things on your on and not have someone spoon feed you information. Any one that researches will be convinced. At least I have put several hundred hours on an Eicher and quite a few on the competition. I doubt you have ever seen an Eicher up close much less driven one. The truth is that there are almost as many Eicher in the field as there are Branson and Century. The funny thing is is that there is a lot more genuine farmers and landscapers using these tractors than you would imagine. This means that these tractors rack up hard, long days. I know of some in dairies and nursuries. NO problems. The thing that you don't realize is that most hard users won't even consider tractors built like yours due to the fact they won't handle use and abuse day in and day out.
As far as air cooled diesels go, again you show your ignorance. Aircooed diesels go as far back as the history of diesels. They have no radiator, water pumps, water jackets freeze plugs or antifreeze to contend with. I have said before all diesels are aircooled. Water cannot cool itself. It depends upon the circulation of air through the fins in the radiator to dissapate the heat. In fact, many water cooled tractor engines have engine problems on the rear cylinder because lack of circulation of water. New Holland has had this for years. Cavitation from microscopic air bubbles exploding eats through cylinder liners over time.
Air cooled diesels are used in industrial situations where reliability is a matter of life and death. Hospital generators fequently use air cooled engines. Skid steer loaders use them. Ditch witches use them, stump griders, tractors and even some road trucks use them. You air barking up the wrong tree on this one.
To answer the other post, yes back in the 40's and early 50's there was a tie in. Deutz and Eicher manufactured engines for each other's tractors. Eicher developed their engines independently, with a fan per cylinder whereas Deutz uses one fan for all the cylinders. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-05-29 55849
Mark, sorry if I sounded curt. I was just trying to address your points as you brought them up. You can call me inexperienced and ignorant and that's OK. Just when you do it, please refute what I say. You say I "don't quite understand" how long Eicher has been around. I bring up an example that to me and I would think others, shows that's irrelevant. Same for the air cooled diesel. Except for Eicher, no golbal manufacturer in the U.S. sells an air cooled diesel in a utility tractor or CUT. If that's an error I'll stand corrected, but don't bring up Hospital standby generators that again are irrelevant. I know air cooled works, every fighter plane and bomber in the U.S. inventory during WWII was air cooled. My point is it's not the best choice for a tractor. Have I seen or driven one? nope, only one dealer that I know of in all of New England. Back in the old dating days, if the girl was 350 lbs., 5'2", buck teeth and glasses it really wasn't necessary to see her in person to know I wasn't interested. I feel the same about a utility tractor with an air cooled diesel made in a third world country. Until you can show me I'm wrong, I stand by everything I said in the first post and the second. Bottom line is, it's not even really what the guy is looking for. Just because he asks a curiosity question once doesn't mean he now needs a utility tractor instead of a class II CUT.
Take it from where it comes, one man's opinion based on facts as he sees them.
Pacesetter ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
Pics
|
2003-05-30 55982
Most WW II US aircraft were air-cooled. Notable exceptions: P38, P39, P40, P51 and P61, and maybe a few others I can't recall from my geeky youth when such things were important.
My distrust for air cooled ground engines (as opposed to aircraft engines) started on Christmas day in 1979 when I had to rescue my brother who was stuck in Tok, AK in a VW bus.
Since there was no way to modulate the cooling air over that engine we had one hell of a time getting it started and keeping it running at -40F.
At least in that climate, I take a water cooled engine every time. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| slowrev
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 231 Winchester , KY
|
2003-05-30 55997
Mark,
My 71 VW bug had a bellows type thermostat that regulated air flow thru the cooling shroud. Worked well at -20. Maybe your brothers was not working, or the oil was too thick, should have had about 10W in it up there in BRRR land. Air cooled snowmobiles work fine in AK.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
Pics
|
2003-05-30 56004
True. And it was a crappy old van.
Now that I think about it, I had air cooled engines in snowthrowers and such.
OK. Forget I said that. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| slowrev
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 231 Winchester , KY
|
2003-05-30 56006
forgotten, but no problem anyway.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
Pics
|
2003-05-31 56089
Pacesetter,
You are ignoring the evidence building against watercooled on this very web site. Look at all the people haveing overheating problems, radiator and other problems. As far as no body having aircooleds, you're wrong again. Deutz fahr has them, Landini uses them, In compacts several italian companies use them, albeit a smaller minority.
The issue that most new comers don't understand is that Diesels typically run at lower temperatures around 175 degrees. When one approaches 195, it is running hot. Gas engines can run at 260 with out problems.
As far as the remark, about buck tooth ugly women, remember the song about not making a pretty woman your wife? That is irrelevant. Anyway, looks has nothing to do with performance.(if you married for looks, then I'm sorry for you. There is so much more to experience.) Come to think of it, your analogy is a leaking bucket in a sinking ship.
If you would investigate the demensions of the tractor, then you would find that it equals the demensions of the 35 HP Boomer. As far as determining what this man needs, you haven't the insight to make this determination nor the right. He has to decide by doing exactly what you have refused to do and that is make inquiry and form an educated and unprejudiced decision based on the facts as he can find them by seeking educated advice on this website.
I've literally put many thousand of hours on all types of tractors and found that the aircooled engines will actually outperform the water cooled for a given HP. Think about it, no water pump to pull.(xtra available HP). No radiator to run a stick through(This I've done on more than one occasion bushogging. Once a piece of corn stubble did this.) Typical uses would suggest to the unbiased that not having a radiator to maintain would make a tractor much more practical.
If any one actually operates open cab tractors in -40, I hope they have a hospital close to treat frostbite. I know that all aircooled engines have restrictor plates available to reduce amount of cooling in cold climates. By the way, diesel gels long before -40. Kerosene might work but the lack of lubrication would doom the injection system in the long run.
One other thing, check the fellow's bios that made the comment. A 641 ford is larger than an Eicher 364.
As far as hospital generators comment, I also included other machines which are small, and used on a local basis across this great world.
There is a great thing in advertising called "Jumping ON the Bandwagon". This is what most companies do when developing a new tractor or product. These companies survive. The ones that go against the grain typically find a "niche" and thrive.(though some die due to lack of understanding). In other words, just because everyone else does it does it make it right? Does it make it wrong? No, judge every product on its own merit. This train of thinking carries over into other areas of life as well. Most promenently in dealing with racism and other cancers in society. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
Pics
|
2003-06-01 56152
ThinVA, ask the John Deere dealer if they would take any of these other than green or orange tractors in trade. That should answer your question. I doubt they would and if they did, would not give a very attractive trade allowance. These other brands will not sell very well on the private sale market either. You can buy a much cheaper tractor and be stuck with or buy a tractor the market has demand for and have value down the road. You will also have a manufacturer that has the resourses and inclination to support its product. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
Pics
|
2003-06-01 56179
Chief,
There are many dealers who will not take an orange or green tractor in trade as well. I have talked to many that would not. It is a matter of resaleability. There is not enough profit margin allowed to take relatively new trade. Many loose money on these type trades. General advice of these dealers is for customer to sell their own tractor. The fact is is that it is easier for any dealer to sell their own used color. Addditionally, when most people buy green, orange, or blue, they do not think of resale value in terms of percent of new(which any good businessman understands) but rather in amount recieved. If you would research honest, reputable dealers, you would find in the majority of cases that resale is the same in terms of percentage.
Lets make an example of clear proportions. If you pay 30K for a tractor and 3 years later, it is worth 20k oon trade, it is the same as paying 10k and receiving 6600 for it 3 years later.
Lets look at it this way, if you over pay to start with, you should expect for the dealer to artificially inflate trade allowance. Rarely do Deere dealers get what they allow for trades even in their own color. This should tell you something about artificially inflated trades. Other lesser known brand dealers typically make money over allowance on their trades of other colors.
I have heard this argument from Deere dealers for years to scare people into purchasing green.
Funny thing, if you go to farm bankruptcy sales like I do, rarely will you see anything but green tractors! ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. 
|
2003-06-01 56184
I don't want to take sides on this air vs liquid cooled diesels.(I personally like liquid).
But I can tell you that I have been around many Duetz air cooled diesels.
Several asphalt rollers we have had at the company I work for are air cooled Deutz.
Some smaller Ingersol Rand rollers use them.
Our Dyno-Pac 10 ton roller and 3 ton Hamm roller use the Deutz air cooled diesel.We have put thousands of hours on them and rarely have problems.As far as Duetz goes they seem to be a very good motor.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-06-02 56391
"Except for Eicher, no golbal manufacturer in the U.S. sells an air cooled diesel in a utility tractor or CUT. If that's an error I'll stand corrected."
OK Mark, I'm wrong again. Where is my local Deutz fahr or Landini dealer? Come on, give me a break. I'm not quite the novice you think I am I worked on Perkins and Catapillar diesels in a dairy fleet operation years ago. I was privately emailed by another member who doesn't want to get into this. He saw an Eicher at a farm show. Said the air cooled engine was noisy and the overall tractor was crude and a step above the Chinese models. From the web site, I could only find out that I think they are only avaliable in 2WD. That's a huge minus for anyone interested in a CUT. A single clutch was mentioned, but no particulars on the PTO so I don't quite understand the "live" PTO you touted as a feature. The engine is only a two cylinder which as well as being noisy would make it inherently rough running. There are only eight forward speeds, none syncronized and the lever is in the middle of the floor. There is no shuttle for use with a loader. The brakes are dry not wet as in most models. Still puzzles me that not one owner has come to the plate to share his experiences?? Maybe this tractor has a use in the US for "real" farmers for haying or some similar function. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as being useful to most prospective CUT purchasers who require a lot of versatility. Sincerely good luck with them. I hope that those who purchase one enjoy it and it meets their expectations.
Pacesetter
BTW: Wolbert, The Eicher is a Deutz "designed" diesel manufactured in India.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
Pics
|
2003-06-02 56397
I believe Belarus also has air cooled tractors and they are in the top 8 in terms of sales of the 97% of the worlds tractors. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
Pics
|
2003-06-03 56445
BTW: Eicher were not Deutz designed.
But just because you don't see an Deutz dealer or Eicher or Landini or Long or any other dealer on your local corner doesn't mean that they aren't out there. Caterpillar( as you should be aware) only limits itself to one or two dealerships per state or region. But everywhere you look there is a CAT. In other words, just because Eicher has a different dealer philosophy, doesn't mean that there isn't a significant number of new purchasers. BTW Deere and other companies are intending to lower the number of dealers to promote greater dealer profitability, thus ensuring their survival. Dealers go in and out of business.
Whoever emailed you obviously did not see the other models available. As for what the international web-site publishes, it also puts in a disclaimer. Each tractor has power-steering and a two stage double clutch. Yes they have dry disk brakes. So does your car. Although a little less tough in design.
Our larger tractors have syncro and shuttle. Most people looking to buy these tractors are using them for what they are suited for(btw 70% are sold w/ loaders), bushogging, landscaping and old fahioned pulling and plowing. Its funny though that cities and county governments are beginning to buy them. They use and abuse tractors more than any one else. They never seem to want 4wd for all that they do.
A lot has been said about the Yanmar greys. The majority of the popular models don't have 4wd, shuttle shift or anything more than 2 cylinders. Double Standard? At least Eichers are new and have saftey standards, official dealer network of around 70 dealers and have factory backing with technical support. All this with a warranty, Wow.
One reason you might not be hearing from Eicher Customers, is that they might actually be too busy using theirs to take time to get on the net and do this. TIC. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-06-03 56463
Didn't realize they were still sold in the U.S.. Even if they are, it takes the mention of a tractor of that caliber to associate it with air cooled diesel.
Air cooling is done for two reasons in non avaition applications. It is cheaper and much less complex. Same reason that the first VW's used the system in the 30's. Air cooling has applications. Who wants a radiator on a chainsaw? It is never chosen in an application where noise is an issue. How many quiet chainsaws are there? Take John Deere garden tractors. The less expensive ones are air cooled and when you pay more you get water cooled machines. The early Honda garden/lawn tractors were water cooled. When they cheapened the line (as cheap as Honda does) to meet a lower price point they did it by switching to air cooled engines. This whole thread got side tracked a little by the air cooled thing. If Eicher were water cooled my opinion would not be a whole lot different. I really need to know what I missed on their web site. Is there more than one? There was no mention of live PTO, shuttle, or syncro transmission. So cars have dry brakes, that makes them the preferred system for tractors? JD 790's have dry brakes, because JD 790's are an old design and built to a price point. When the 00 series became the improved 10 series, they certainly didn't change wet brakes to dry as one of the improvements.
Yanmar greys are bought for one reason they are inexpensive and reliable. 2 cyl 2WD models are not bought for versatility. There are 3 cyl 4WD's imported too and they bring much more money because they are much more versatile. City and county and state governemnts can't afford teachers, schools, police, firemen or new roads. It stands to reason they would get out of a required new tractor purchase as cheap as possible. I for one would not be happy to give up fire protection then see the road crews running around in new JD's
In this country there is a segment of the population who will buy Eichers. As long as they have a complete accurate and realistic view of the machine and it's capabilities, fine for them. Where I take exception is when they are touted to be something they are not. The 364 as I see it is a small utility tractor designed for farm use best suited to a narrow range of applications. Bushhogging, haying, old fashoned pulling and plowing - fine. Grass cutting, frequent FEL work, typical homeowner, small landowner use - not so fine.
I would suggest you don't hear from Eicher owners on this forum because there aren't any. Maybe of some farmers forum, but not here. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
Pics
|
2003-06-03 56473
Chainsaws are loud because they are 2 cycle, not aircooled. If you believe that about water cooled being cheaper to produce... After doing some checking, there is no significant difference in production costs and actually aircooleds are more difficult to design.
Will a 2 wd drive do as much work as a 4 wd. All things equal no. As for mowing, 4wd tractors have a small amount of slippage between the wheels (as much as 5%) because of the inablility of tires and gears to provide an exact ratio from front to back. So this damages the grass as the front tires pull against the rear slightly. Also the slippage occurs when turning. Most expensive golf courses prefer 2 wd for this reason.
Will Eicher have its day? stay tuned. Look for 4wd and more to come. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-06-03 56477
Right on chainsaws, 2 cycle is the biggest factor in noise. So why worry about how much extra noise it makes if air cooled? The point is that air cooled engines are louder than water cooled, thus more tiring to operate. I don't need earmuffs while operating my Honda lawn tractor. My neighbor uses them on his MTD and NEEDS them. With a simple fan replacing a radiator, hoses, waterpump and thermostat and simpler engine castings that do not require internal passages I would wonder why air cooled is as or more expensive??
I think it's pretty easy to disengage 4WD when mowing. If you do get in a spot where you need it, it will be less destructive to engage it than try and spin out in 2WD. Why use 4WD on a golf course?? That's not an application where it's needed. I was personally very surprised how easy it was to spin the rear tires on my tractor in 2WD when the right front tire went in a deep rut. A flick of the lever got me right out, but tractors have no suspensions so the rear unloaded very easily. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Woodbeef
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 63 Canada
|
2003-06-03 56534
The parent company that Eicher India originally came from were very well known for air cooled engines,and dependable tractors of their own design.
As for the Euro 6100 series from Eicher. It is a licensed copy of the Valmet 365,and does come in mfd along with twd. I've not had a chance to see the Eicher copy yet,but the original is one heck of an economy level utility tractor !! Very well engineered and dependable,as are all the Valmet,and now Valtra tractor offerings. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| THinVa
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14 Staunton, Virginia
|
2003-06-04 56630
Hello Everyone,
Just wanted to update you on my tractor selection. I purchased a Kubota 3130GST 4wd w/FEL and liquid filled industrial tires for $17,500 with 3 years 0% interest. I wasn't really even considering a Kubota until is saw their new Grand L series and then I was sold. I have had the tractor for about a month and couldn't be happier. The same day I looked at the Kubota I visited a Century dealer and was really torn between the two. The Century dealer changed my mind by being honest and telling me that the only 2535 he had on the lot was going to replace one that he had just sold to someone a week earlier, evidently it had a rear end problem. I don't know if was a fluke but I sure didn't want to take a chance on having the same problem. Has anyone else heard anything bad about the Century 2535? ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMahindra pricing versus JD Kabota NH etc
| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
|
2003-06-05 56685
Congrats on your selection. It was once high on my list until I bought a Century 3045. I gave up the hydro and a few bells and whistles. In return, I got a much heavier tractor with a 48 HP Yanmar four cyl for not a whole lot more than you paid. If I didn't feel I needed more power, I would have been very happy with a 3130. The Century Branson line seem to be about the most trouble free tractors out there. I'm sure the rear end problem was a fluke as you mention. I heard from one Century owner that the dealership he bought from has sold 170 machines and had one warranty repair. There are zero defects on mine. Of the big three (Kubota, JD and NH) and the relatively big three Korean(Mahindra, Kioti and C/B) there are no common problems that should keep a buyer away from any of them. They are all relatively trouble free. Enjoy and keep us posted, you started a lively thread :-)
Pacesetter ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add Photo
Go Top
Share This