Go BottomUndercoating on mower decks
 | Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 172 La Crosse WI 
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2002-09-15 42430
When i mow with a LP FDR25-84 or the 54" deck on a X595, the dirt and grass clippings combine to build-up on the deck underside. Sometimes it gets very thick, and impedes the exit chute; it gets almost brick-like hard. Other times grass clumps will build up and eventually spit out. I suspect the moisture in the crud will also rust the deck out eventually.
So i've seen a graphite coating at dealers and TSC/F&F type stores. Some types are just a graphite powder+binder, others have the graphite in a suspension of acrylic that is supposed to adhere better. The labels claim benefits for plow blades, etc. Can anyone comment on whether this stuff works for mowers to improve the out-flow of clippings?
jim
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2002-09-16 42467
These products may well help. I've also heard of a product that some people spray on loader buckets and blower chutes to keep snow from sticking, which might be an alternative. I'd think about something that forms a thick coating. The costing may crack or be somewhat porous, which could trap moisture under the coating and cause the deck to rust faster. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-09-17 42527
We have had excellent luck with the Silver Streak gatorback blades for solving the grass build-up problems with those decks. They offer more lift and tend to tear the grass a little more and give a more even discharge. Most all of our commercial mowers in the area are useing them and the commercial JD people keep coming back for more and raving about them. I don't know if they will solve your problems but it sounds a lot easier and I have seen the differences on the used ones I've had a chance to play with before selling them. ....
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| Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-09-17 42539
ArtWhite:
are the gatorbacks available for my LP-25-84 and the 54" deck on my x595?
do I talk purchasing details to you via email?
jim ....
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| larry
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 0 St.Davids
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2002-09-18 42574
Art White
Are the Gator Blades avialable for a Case M160 MMM?
If so how do I get in touch to get 3
Thanks ....
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| Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-09-18 42597
Guys, blades are only part of the reason for build-up. Manufacturers like Scag and Gravely offer coated and/or plated high lift blades to increase life and reduce build-up, but that is all they do, reduce it and not eliminate it. Mulching decks are the worse for grass cake, followed by mowers with discharge plate covers. Open discharge type mowers resist build-up best, and if that is the type you have, you may be mowing at the wrong time and the wrong rpm. Grass should not be mowed when it is wet, even morning dew can cause it to turn into cake causing it to stick. Every pro I know, myself included, tries to hold off until the grass is dry, but business being what it is these days we all too often start early and finish late (I mow 8 large lawns on the weekend, ten on week nights). Mowing ten or more acres a day is about the norm, seven days a week. This much work can build-up grass fast in the course of a week during prime growing season, that's why we sharpen every other day and scrape the housing with a sharp putty knife as needed. As for spray on or brush on stuff, Tom G is right; sooner or later it cakes and cracks causing more drag. What I do for this kind of situation is done during off season, and that is strip out the blades and spindles, power wash and sand blast the under-deck, prime it, paint it, wax it with a silicone wax, and put it back together for spring. In short, I know of no magic fix for this problem, just good mowing practices and good maintenance done on equipment kept up to manufacturers' spec.'s. ....
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| Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-09-18 42605
Ted: i appreciate your thoughts but i don't agree with several points.
- i don't see your point about mowing wet. unless you're in AZ or NM, most folks can't avoid mowing wet or damp grass. you confound your point by conceding you can't be selective when you mow. I have 2 weekend days that aren't always dry. and even the water content of green grass is enough to cause matting up. the caking really gets bad with the dirt and dust being kicked up and mixing with the grass. The objective is to find something that minimizes the caking despite the conditions.
- who mows at the wrong rpm? L&G equipment (mowers, tractors, etc) basically can only run at max engine speed; tractors and equipment all have have clear instructions to run at the recommended PTO speed (540 or whatever).
- my LP-FDR-25-84 is a reardischarge -- minimal deck interference, short pathway out from under, etc. It still gets full in the corners and bends and chute area.
- what causes more drag than a build-up of grass and dirt?
Tom's supposition that erosion of an undercoating will have significant drag is a stretch.
- it doesn't take 10 acres of mowing to build up the crud, it takes less than 30 minutes, and then it just reduces the effectiveness of the deck design from then on.
- i didn't read into ArtWhite's suggestion that a special blade will eliminate the problem, but if it increases air movement, turbulence or whatever, and thereby reduces the buildup, its worth a shot (he did say he's got satified customers).
jim ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-09-18 42612
I don't have any problems with my deck, a Bulher building up grass, but did with my LP.
I wonder is a good injection mold release agent might be used to release the grass from the deck? If you could just lift the deck and spray it on it might be worth it.
Below is a table of one brand of mold release agents. I can't recommend it as I have never used it. I would have to look around to find the brands I have used. ....
Link: Mold release example
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-09-18 42613
I don't have any problems with my deck, a Bulher building up grass, but did with my LP.
I wonder is a good injection mold release agent might be used to release the grass from the deck? If you could just lift the deck and spray it on it might be worth it.
Below is a table of one brand of mold release agents. I can't recommend it as I have never used it. I would have to look around to find the brands I have used. ....
Link: Mold release example
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-19 42616
I guess I was thinking about avoiding a thick coating of any kind, including grass cake, that would retain moisture and increase rusting. Drag wasn't on my mind, but who knows, maybe an idea like anti-stick spray for skillets has some merit.
My riding mower threw a belt, probably from a broken blade-brake and linkage. I've got the deck off now waiting for parts. After almost three years of neglect I was surprised to find very little grass cake. There actually was more cake on top of the deck around the spindles. My wife does most of the mowing now and I guess we have the luxury of picking times but we just wait until the dew dries in the morning and virtually never have to mow even damp grass.
I don't have the luxury of sand blasting but I'll clean up the deck best as I can. I wonder if a naval-jelly type product might slow down the rust. Actually, it looks about the same as three years ago so I must be doing something right. Even neglect has its place I guess.
....
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| Mrwurm
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 184 South East Michigan
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2002-09-19 42620
I had a mower deck that would clog up something awful. I could only cut about half an acre or so before it clogged up. Turned out that the front of the deck was higher than the back. I adjusted the deck per the owners manual with .25 inch lower in the front. No more clogging problems after that.
Jerry ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-19 42627
Lower in front doesn't take as much power as well. Lower in back mulches a bit though. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-09-19 42646
Larry, Jim, unfortunatly they do not have them for your machines. They are making new models available all the time. For the Case you might want to check with your local woods dealer as they may offer a better blade. On the Deere they to might have some blades that might cure your problem. I wish I could help further. You might want to check with some of your local dealers as Silver Streak is the company building these blades. We sell them to many of our commercial accounts as well as home owners. The blades are called Gator Backs and instead of a smooth uplift in the rear they are raised and cut and twisted to further help make smaller pieces. They are great in leaves and have helped in wet conditions. ....
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| Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-09-19 42651
Dear Jim, the point I was trying to convey is that while most manufacturers recommend that grass be dry not everyone can mow when it is, myself included. Wet grass does cause clogs. As far as RPM goes, this is a real problem. Many homeowners mow when the grass is very high using too low a cut. This causes the blades to slow down resulting in a poor cut, and grass clumping on the lawn. Some people think that by running their engine slower they save fuel so they can mow longer, but at the same time the deck never reaches full speed and the cut is poor with a lot of cake.
Other factors are the type of grass that you cut, diferent fescues mow differently: I can mow St. Augustine lower and faster than perennial rye or bluegrass without fear of build-up. The reason for this is as you pointed out, their normal moisture contents, are different. Also, some weeds commonly found in lawns, when dry to the touch, are very wet inside.
If my customers' grass is over four inches I "stripe" mow, first indexed cut is at three inches, the second indexed cut is at almost a 45 degree angle to the first pass, at two and a half inches. Striping the lawn uses a bit more time and fuel but it is easier on the mower, disperses the clippings better, causes much less cake, and looks good.
I know you are sincere in finding a cure for the problem and I thought that by offering some alternatives you would have better luck. I did not mean to imply that you were not competent. ....
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| Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-09-19 42659
Dear Jim, this is really reaching but may be worth a try. Both reduce surface friction and are excellent for machinery of all kinds. At work we coat various metal rotational parts (helicopter rotor heads) with these products to keep them free of dirt while static and/or in flight.
Assembly Lubricant:
"Perma-Slik" resin bonded coating containing molybdenum disulfide and graphite. Mfg by E/M Lubricants, Inc., PO Box 2200, West Lafayette, Indiana 47906
This must be sprayed onto a painted or smooth bare metal surface free of dirt, you spray it on in thin coats and it dries in half an hour. It can't be used to clean prior to coating. It goes on black and dries grey.
Asembly/Protectant Lubricant
"Break-Free CLP" spray on, cures in two hours, Mfg by San Bar Corporation, Santa Monica, CA 92705-4396
You can use this to clean the dirty surface and then recoat for lubrication. Wipe the surface smooth, no heavy coat needed. It goes on milky and dries clear.
Both of these products have proven effective in protecting aircraft parts from bugs, dirt, bird guts, etc. The crap just wipes off with a dampened rag. How well will they work with grass? I don't know, maybe someone would like to try them. They both work better than WD40 on snow thrower augers and snow plow blades. ....
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma 
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2002-09-19 42667
I mow with a Landpride rear discharge mower. I've never had a problem with buildup but I mow after the dew has dried. I agree with Ted. Sounds like he's got it going to me.
Billy
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| just a guest
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-09-23 42836
when racing dirt cars we sprayed on some stuff called mud off, i seen others use disel fuel. this would stop mud from clinging to car. Seems to me it would work on the under side of a deck as well. call it far fetched if you want but i get a new tractor next week and i will try it for sure. didnt realize this would be that much of a problem. ....
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| farmhouse
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 15 East Texas
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2002-09-25 42908
Ted, you seem to be writing from experience. I have a new 5ft rotary mower on order. How about a spray of oil on the underside of the mower before using? Would it make a difference if I follow your other suggestions-dry conditions, etc.? ....
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| Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-09-28 43056
Don't use it, it will absorb dust and dirt and build-up cake in a hurry. A good coat of quality wax when new or freshly painted will help, but only if you intend on cleaning and waxing after each use. Other wise, just run it all season and then during the off-season you should flip it over and see what's going on. Make your service according to what you see and to what the manufacturer suggests. ....
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| Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-09-28 43065
I painted the underside of my 54" deck with the graphite loaded coating (acrylic-based), from Farm&Fleet. It is a surprisingly tough coating -- mowed 3-1/2 hrs and had minimal buildup, so i'm satisfied. Previously i've tried WD40, and silicon spray, with little effect. I think most things applied to deck undersides wear off very quickly with the volume of cuttings moving thru the deck. Twigs, dirt, etc all abrade and carry off most applications.
After a couple more mowings, i'll check how much of the acrylic is worn off. Looks good for now.
jim ....
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| farmhouse
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 15 East Texas
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2002-09-29 43075
Ted and Jim, thanks for the advice. I think that I'll take the easy way out and follow Ted's advice to clean and inspect at the end of each mowing season. ....
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| rla
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-15 49312
Homeowner here. I run a scag turf tiger on 3 acers of lawn. I have found that spraying the deck with a mix of diesel fuel and oil helps keep the grass build up down. It does help in the cleanup afterwords. Any type of paint that I have tried seems to be worn off after the first cutting. Not a pro like most of you, but this is my expierence. ....
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