Go BottomFarm Pro 2420 won t start
 | tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee 
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2007-08-25 145009
I had the battery check at the auto parts store thinking I might have a dead cell. Not that easy.Battery checks out good.When i turn the key over all gauges react as when I start the tractor but nothing happens.Not even a click from the starter.All the fuses check out with my multimeter.Manual is usless. Please HELP!!!!
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 | greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky 
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2007-08-25 145011
Big problem with Jinmas is grounding over paint. Follow the battery ground cable to where it's bolted to the frame. Remove the bolt, use a grinder to get down to bare metal, reground the battery.
Get a wire brush and clean the positive battery lug at the starter, and the solenoid wire at both ends. If the lock washers are missing, replace them.
Ignition switch is crap, wafers collapse without warning. I replaced mine with a common Ford cold start switch.
//greg// ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan 
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2007-08-25 145013
My New Holland does the same thing---gotta repalce the ignition switch every 100-150 hours due to dust and grime getting it. ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-08-26 145023
Can I replace ignition switch with toggle switch and a push botton? ....
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 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-26 145025
Tnrobnz,
I don't believe it would be possible to replace the ignition switch with a simple toggle and pushbutton, as it appears to me as though your switch serves several different purposes, and controls several functions.
Here's a link to the switch I believe you have.
Part Number = JK290A
Part Number cross reference = 20000034
Price = $24.34
Availability = Currently NOT in Stock
Click on the link below.
At the top of the home page, click on "Electrical"
Your switch should be the third item to the right.
I hope that helps.
Joel ....
Link: Jimna Parts - Electrical -- Ignition Switch
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-08-26 145028
Push button and toggle switch means you'll forfeit the ability to energize the glow plugs. Unless you want TWO push buttons that is.
Twenty four bucks for a Jinma switch that's got a documented history of self-destructing is silly when you can buy a proven Ford cold start switch for maybe half that. I'll even walk you through wiring it up.
//greg// ....
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| RanchHand
Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 37 Virginia / North Carolina Line
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2007-08-26 145049
One more thing to check... clutch switch.
Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-08-27 145076
It sounds like Ronald is getting closer to the cause of the problem.
You should also check the function of the starter solenoid. If the relay is bad it will do exactly the same thing.
Best of luck. ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-08-30 145235
Replace the iginiton switch, when this one goes out I'll get the Ford switch. Still won't start.What do I need to check on the clutch switch?The pedal pushed it almost all the way in, but I'm guessing that switch can go bad also.Where should I go from here? ....
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 | leejohn
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 71 Doniphan, Missouri
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2007-08-31 145242
HI, Do you have 12 to 14 volts at the starter and the solenoid when the key switch is turned to start? If you don't have it at the solenoid go back from there.
Lee
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-31 145248
Tnrobnz,
I read through all of the replies here, thinking I might have missed something important along the way.
When you turn your key, nothing happens.......no click.... no starter activation....engine doesn't crank over.
Since you've ruled out the ignition switch, let's discuss some of the other safety switches that are found on your tractor.
I don't know anything about your particular tractor, but most tractors won't start if the PTO is engaged. You may have a safety switch on the PTO lever, which is not functioning properly. If you attempt to engage and disengage the PTO a few times, you may find that this switch will make contact. If not, you may be able to put a meter across the terminals to find out whether or not it is closing properly.
A faulty clutch switch would cause the same problem, and can be checked using the same method.
I don't know if your tractor has a transmission neutral safety switch, but if it does, this switch could also be the culprit.
And if you have a safety switch under the operator's seat, this switch could cause the same problem.
Generally speaking, before any tractor will start all of these switches must be closed. The clutch must be depressed; the PTO must be disengaged; the transmission must be in neutral; and the operator must be in the seat.
My tractor doesn't have all of these safety switches, as I am able to start mine without having to sit on it -- but most tractors have at least three of these safety switches on them.
Your problem could be as simple as a having a loose connection at one of these switches, or having some debris caught up in the tractor that is causing one or more of these switches to function improperly.
A problem with one of these safety switches will usually make itself known after using the tractor one day with absolutely no problem, and not being able to start it the next day.
If you are careful, you could place a jumper wire across each of these safety switches to eliminate the bad one. Just make sure your tractor is in neutral and that the PTO is disengaged before attempting any of this.
Please stop in to let us know what you find, or to go on to the next step.
Joel ....
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 | SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g 
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2007-08-31 145261
Tnrobnz,
I had one of these tractors, it did the job I needed and I sold it after 5 years for $1500 less than I paid for it. I was told by the dealer and also several people that the chinese batterys were junk, and would not be anything but a problem. I did not believe them or I was just cheap. I went through several months of jump starts cleaning the battery and charges. When I would check the battery it showed up on the volt meter as good. Under a load nothing. It would not crank, buzz, click at all. I bought a battery for tractors at a local auto parts store and never had another problem. Good luck
Phil ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-06 145454
I have found broken wire for the brake switch broken. I tied the cluth and brake switch wires togather to bypass them. Still won't turn. The starter solenoid was very hot to the touch. Removed it and going to replace that and clutch and brake switches. I hope it starts after this..... ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-06 145455
The solenoid shouldn't get hot unless the engine is warm or something is wrong with the solenoid itself like being shorted internally---however it would have to powered up by/through the ignition switch--so it may be bad too. ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-06 145458
Can I leave the clutch and brake switches bypassed? Will it effect anything else? ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-06 145464
I dunno---all depends on how sophisticated the electricals are. On my Blue, it has a central safety control unit that is SUPPOSE to prevent bypassing. It failed, and now I have to bypass the unit (I have a new one just haven't installed it yet).
It's not like you'll burn something up though. ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-07 145485
I unplugged both switches from the contact pins and plugged them in to each other. Will there be a problem? ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-07 145487
What made you do that? ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-08 145494
With out a manual it made the most sense. If I removed the switch by unplugging it there needs to be something across it to close the circuit.By plugging the two togather I would have cloed both circuits. ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-09-08 145495
Tnrobnz,
After bypassing, or jumping across these switches, does your tractor now start and run properly?
If so, you have properly identified the problem switch, or switches.
It is not a good idea to leave these safety switches out of the circuit. (with the exception of the seat switch, which I would eliminate.)
Though the possibility that someone other than yourself may attempt to start and run this tractor may be slim, the possibility does exist. For those who are unfamiliar with your tractor, a dangerous condition exists when these switches have been bypassed.
At a minimum, I would replace any faulty switch on the clutch engagement, transmission neutral engagement, and PTO engagement.
If you have a seat switch, this would be the only safety switch I would permanently bypass, unless there is a high probability of a roll-over on your terrain, as the operator's seat switch will kill your tractor as soon as the tractor reaches appx a 25-30 degree angle.
If you decide to bypass the seat safety switch, it then becomes imperative that you wear your safety belt at all times.....which you should do anyway.
Joel ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-08 145496
No it did not start. How ever I did find out that the starter solenoid was very hot to touch after the bypass. I am going to replace the starter solenoid and both switches. There is no seat switch that I can find. I will tell you how everthing goine after I repalce those parts. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-08 145498
I'm not convinced it is the solenoid. I think you still have to replace the starting switch. There should be no power going to the solenoid EXCEPT through the starting switch which is why it's hot.
Normally, when you turn the starting switch, the solenoid coil is only energized until you release it. And if the solenoid is bad and stays engaged then it would follow that the starter would engage.
Before you replace the solenoid, I suggest doing everything you have been--don't change a thing. Disconnect the solenoid (the small wire). Then give it some time to heat back up and see if it's hot again. If it get's hot----I got nuthin'.
And, with the small wire still disconnected, test it for power. If the starter switch is OFF, there should be no power to it. If the switch is still OFF and there is power to it, there is either a crossed wire somewhere possibly on the back of the switch or somewhere else that is backfeeding it to the solenoid, or the switch is bad. If you think the switch is bad, disconnect it. Then see if the solenoid heats up. If it does, I got nuthin'. ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-09-08 145529
The brake switch is NOT in the starter circuit, there's no need to mess with that one at all. Plug it back in or risk having the brake lights run down your battery (and melt the lenses).
You said the solenoid was getting hot, so obviously juice is getting that far. Does the starter turn at all? any clicking? any noise at all? Is the pinion gear maybe jammed in the ring gear teeth?
//greg// ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-10 145609
Have already replaced ignition switch. When I try to start it nothing happens not even a clicking.When I took of the solenoid it came a part.It looked like the screws that hold the two housings togather had broke.Am I better off replacing the startr or thr whole starter? When I order for the starter/solenoid I was going to replace the clutch and brake switches.Any other advise? ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-10 145610
I'd remove the starter w/solenoid and take it to a competent, qualified electrical starter rebuilder. Anyone else is not going to have the right parts or the way to properly test it. And thse foreign sarters are not cheap---my New Holland dealer wanted $460 for a new one, a $380 for a rebuilt. For $45 I got a new solenoid replaced which included testing. The dealer wouldn't sell me just a solenoid.
Short of that, I think I'd be tempted to seek out a qualified auto/truck/farm electrial shop and drop it off and let them fix it. It may cost a few bucks but a the the rate you're going you're gonna spend that much or more anyway.
Have you looked at the battery connections or charge level? After the solenoid being hot for so long it may have drained the battery. And the battery may be bad now too if it's a cheapy. ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-11 145621
Yes the battery is still good.The connections are clean and I have ground to bare metal.There is a Jinma dealer I found through here that sells the solenoid by itself.Or would I be better off buying a whole starter for $150.The solenoid is $50. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-11 145626
Sounds like a trick question! How do you know if the starter is bad to begin with? ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-09-11 145627
Tnrobnz,
Having a second starter on hand isn't a bad idea. It might be worth your while to purchase the entire replacement, even if you don't need it right now.
Should you replace the starter and solenoid assembly, you'd then know if that solved the problem......but this is a very expensive method of troubleshooting a fault.
Joel ....
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| Moulder
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12 Aus
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2007-09-17 145806
The motor and solenoid work together but it is easy to test them separately.
Just take a batter and a set of jumper leads then connect the earth- to the body of the starter then power+ the terminal closest to the starter body at the bottom of the back of the solenoid. Be careful! the starter should jump into life and rotate (best to restrain it in a vice of some thing similar) if it doesn't rotate then you've found the problem.
To test the solenoid leave the earth connected to the body then power the small connector which normally has the small wire on it (from the Ignition Switch) The solenoid should throw the starter pinion (gear) out towards the end of the shaft with some vigor, don't expect the starter to turn at this stage.
Note for the first test at no time do you need to connect the power to the big connector that normally has the battery lead on it!
A happy starter with the earth connected to the body, power connected to the main battery cable connector and a small power wire touched onto the small wire connector on the back of the solenoid should burst into life with both of the above actions happening - solenoid pushes the pinion out as the motor lurches into motion and rotates at a healthy speed.
12 volt won't kill you but the amps of a cranking battery will allow you to weld and or burn your hands, so take care! work slowly and carefully.
Quite possibly confused you but hope to help!
Failing that take the starter and battery to your local auto electrician and he will test it for your , usually for a small fee (can always ask how much to "test" ,first) ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-17 145812
Moulder I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment on how to test a starter based on my experience. Simply stating that if the motor runs it's good isn't true nor is it an accurate way to test.
I have had starters that unbeknownst to me were bad before I had them (they were on used equipment I bought). A buddy who owns an auto electric place was "kind enough" (read: HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN???) to show me the damage I had done to my expensive backhoe starter. It "ran" for about three years before it gave up the ghost. ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-09-18 145851
If you can actually find a rebuilder that wants to fool with a Chinese starter, I doubt you'd get away for less than $75. For what they cost new (~$130), I'd just replace the complete starter/solenoid assembly. Matter of fact, I've got two here that I think will fit that tractor. One's just out of the rebuilder shop, the other's almost new (~30 hours). Let me know the number that's stamped on your starter housing to make sure one of mine will work on your 2420. Once you get the tractor running again, you then have the luxury of deciding whether or not you want the takeoff rebuilt for a hot spare.
//greg// ....
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| Moulder
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12 Aus
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2007-09-20 145915
Doesn't he just want to see if it works or not? "if it works it will turn and engage the solenoid" it's not rocket science! Most auto elect's without physic abilities could not predict a failure 3 years into the future. Yes it is worth noting that if it turns thats no guarantee that it will have enough torque to turn the engine over, but I have never met a Auto elec who can test the torque output of a starter on the bench. A strip down and test of the internals is the proper way to be sure, buts in this case thats best left to a professional. But really who gives a rat's when we are talking about guy who just wants some idea about what he is doing with out spending the money on getting a professional to come out and do it for him. Lets not split hairs for the sake of a $75 dollar starter motor and a couple of hours, tops, if thats actually the problem! ....
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 | DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2007-09-20 145916
Here is a link to a quiz with answers on auto starter motors.
When I was a kid, and more of a self taught mechanic at the time because my cars were all hand me downs, I had to replace a couple of starter motors and or solenoids.
I used to use a remote control starter switch that I hooked from the battery to the starter solenoid, which helped eliminate any of the vehicles switches as the culprit.
....
Link: Starter motor
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-20 145931
Moulder I sense you're upset about "splitting hairs". Don't be. We are here to have fun and share ideas and experiences. IMHO, and that's just what it is-- my opinion--it is not prudent nor accurate to assume that the definitive test for a starter to be okay or not is if it spins. To me that's like saying you can drive on a flat tire because it can still spin. Yes you can, but is it advisable? No.
Or like my smartbutt buddy told me about my car tire, "Hey it's not TOTALLY flat--only on the bottom!" ....
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| SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g
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2007-09-20 145934
Well you have gone this far so take the starter apart and check the brushes. Some time they slip out of the bracket that holds them against the commutator. Sometimes they weardown and in that case you can turn them sideways and re-install them and they will work for a little while.
Phil ....
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| leejohn
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 71 Doniphan, Missouri
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2007-09-20 145936
I have been reading this from the start and I think I might be reading more about it when the snow is flying.
Lee
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-20 145938
Murphy's Law. Ah yes, there's nothing more exhilarating than bone-chilling temps, 2 feet of blowing snow in the driveway, and the tractor won't start. Well, it would have if...DOH! ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-23 146001
Latest report installed new solenoid and wired everything up. As I was connecting the battry cable it started. It started without the key in it. I have engouh of fix one problem to find another. How do I solve this latest delima. I can only work on this when I am home every couple of weekends.I need to get this fixed once and for all. ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-09-23 146003
Best guess given the info provided, is that you wired the replacement ignition switch in wrong
//greg// ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-23 146009
I kinda have to agree with Greg as I have seen it done before.
Maybe there is a starting relay that has welded itself closed. ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-25 146071
That is what I thought at first. When I removed the wires from the old switch I marked them with a Sharpie. Wired it to match on the new ignition switch.When the tractor started with out a key I re installed the old switch and matched all markings. If it is a weld short what would be the next step? If I had not found this site I would have spent a whole lot of money,that I don't have ,on a repair shop that could have taken advantage of me. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-25 146084
Spend lots of money---you're in luck we accept all major credit cards---HA! Jis' kiddin'! :)
Backtrack/trace from the ignition switch and look for something with a red battery cable(s) going to and from it, along with one, two or more thinner wires to/from it that go to the ignition switch.
The other thing that may be similar to my New Holland (though I kinda doubt it) is an electronic brain or controller that may be bad. Many thinner wires will be connected to it. It might be bad. Mine is bad, and each day something else does or doesn't work. Gremlins I tell ya. One thing for sure is, it won't let it start. But that is ok because I can leave on a job site and no one can easily start it like I know how. ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-09-29 146257
Removed the ignition switch in order to isolate problem. The tractor started. I believe that there is a short in the starter.If I leave the battry cable on the battery after it starts I can still hear it chattering like when it first starts.I might just resort to buying some goats to keep my field mowed, I wonder how hard it is to ride a goat, hahahahahaha. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-29 146261
Not sure about goats, but I think Kenny has some experience with sheep. ;)
Somehow you have accidentally crisscrossed or misinstalled a 12v battery feed on the starter switch that it is feeding back to the starter solenoid. ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-09-29 146280
That chatter is generally caused by the pinion gear stuck in the ring gear teeth after the engine starts. When it fails to retract in the starter housing like that, it can be a mechanical issue (dirt, broken spring, bad teeth) or - as Earthworks points out - electrical
//greg// ....
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| tnrobnz
Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Tennessee
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2007-10-05 146552
Would that be the starter and not the solenoid? ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-10-05 146563
He's talking about the small gear that is inside the nose of the starter that slides on the starter motor shaft. As it slides, it engages into the flywheel on the engine. ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-10-05 146569
Yup. The solenoid is what kicks the pinion out of the starter housing and into the ring gear teeth. It's thrown out against spring tension, so is normally expected to automatically retract into the starting housing after the flywheel comes up to speed. Sometimes they fail to separate
//greg// ....
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| n9911c
Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 8 Merced, CA
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2007-10-06 146593
Tnrobnz,
Check the wires at the starter and make sure the small(solenoid) wire is not touching the battery cable terminal. Buy a test light(not a powered one) which will allow you to test the system. Right now you are using the starter as a test light and it sounds like when the tractor starts the starter is still turning which isn't the best for the starter. If the small wire is not touching the battery cable, take the small wire off of the starter. Clip your test light to ground and touch the positive battery cable to verify that your test light lights up. Then touch the(solenoid) small wire with the test light. If it lights the test light with the ignition switch in the off position then there is power being supplied to the solenoid wire at the wrong time and we will go up to the ign switch next to test that. If the test light does not light up then turn the key to the start position and it should light up.
Things to look for:
If there is power to the small wire when the ign swith is off, disconnect the small wire at the ign switch and the light should go off. If not then the small wire is making contact(shorted to power) somewhere in the wiring loom on the way down to the starter.
If there is no power to the wire then you have to test the ignition switch and ign switch connections. Here's how: Using your test light, with the ignition switch in the off position, touch all the wires to the ign switch(the small solenoid wire is still disconnected from the switch). (1)The wire that lights up the test light is the batt wire and should be connected to the batt terminal on the switch. There should be no power to any of the other terminals on the switch with the key in the off position, if there is then the switch is bad. (2) Turn the switch to on or run. The ign terminal should be the only terminal to light the test light. (3) Turn the key to start. The solenoid/start terminal should light up and the light will go off when returned to the on position. The ign terminal on the switch will still be on too. In the glow plug position the ign and glow plug terminal should light up the test light.
This is how I would go about troubleshooting the starting system at this point in your dilemma.
Tony
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