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 | Lwayne
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 95 
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2007-09-21 145947
The other day I was harrowing a parking lot and the thought popped into my head that such a light load might be wasting the tread on my front tires so I disengaged them. Immediately my speed dropped from 4 mph to 3.5 mph. To me, that seemed incredible! If the front tires pull that much without a heavy load no wonder they wear out so fast. I know they're over-speeded, but instead of front wheel assist it seems more like four wheel drive! That's a lot of pull for such small tires (8 x 16 R1's). It got me wondering. When do you guys feel you can trade off tire wear for productivity (except on the road)?
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2007-09-21 145950
LW; I can't explain why your speed would have jumped that much by disconnecting the front wheel assist. Yes there is lead built into the front wheel drive of maybe 2-3%, but not enough that it would pull you that much faster. On any light load or especially road travel always turn the FWA off, you are causing premature wear not only to the tires but also to the drive train. Only extreme road travel,ice, snow, any silippery muddy lane conditions would call for the FWA as a saftey factor. Even loader work if you are in somewhat perfect conditions,like scraping a concreet aprion with the FEL would seldom call for the FWA. Heavy drawbar work, loader work in mud, snow, etc., yes have it on you need it. You likely haven't hurt anything depending on how long you've used it that way. I sometimes will forget and start down the road with it on too. The farm size 7 and 8 thousand series Deere tractors automaticly disconnect the FWA above 11 MPH> Frank. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-09-21 145952
I don't know JD but it appears it has speedometer. Most speedometers don't measure ground speed and it is hard to believe something else affected the speed, not going to 2 wheel drive.
My bigger question is, do you use 4 wheel drive on hard surfaces? If so I think tire wear is not the major wear issue for you, rather drive train wear. I know with my Kubota it binds it on hard surfaces when in 4 wheel drive. JD may not be like that, but I suspect it is not recommened unless on soft dirt where the front wheel are able to slip. Is it possible your drive train was in a bind that showed a higher speed due to the bind somehow? kt ....
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 | mobilus
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 171 Clay County, TX
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2007-09-21 145954
It's killing me not to, and I may look stupid for asking, but what is "harrowing a parking lot"? Same as edging with a disc blade setup? Just curious.
And kthompson, my tractor seems to "bind" up when in 4WD on good ground as well. And it seems to run easier when I disengage it. That may account for the speed difference, though mine doesn't have a speedometer either and the comment is based on how the tractor feels to me. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2007-09-21 145955
I'm guessing he was using a chain harrow on a gravel parking lot, and I have to point out that his speed increased, not decreased when he popped out of 4wd.
The link tells you how to measure your lag/lead. It sounds complicated but it is a fairly simple procedure. ....
Link:
Click Here
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| mobilus
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 171 Clay County, TX
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2007-09-21 145956
That explains it...thanks! So it is for leveling more than eliminating weeds, right? ....
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| Lwayne
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 95
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2007-09-21 145959
Mobilus: Sorry for the confusion. I use a modidfied contraption consisting of about a 15' long I beam with teeth cut out of one side (flip it over and it's smooth) pulled by a cable. Yes, it's used for leveling out the gravel as it's quite heavy. Actually, a group of businesses in the area share it. One of the others actually owns it. It works slick, but for a 50 pto hp tractor it's no weight. I've never had anything "lock up" to my knowledge as was questioned. I'm still surprised that those tiny front tires do so much of the pulling. I read where the manufaturers try to distribute weight 60/40 but the tire size sure doesn't reflect that. That's probably somewhat misleading but I think that the larger question here is "why does John Deere offer the same tire options on a 50 hp tractor as it does a 35 hp tractor?" Wouldn't the subject be mute if the rear tires were, say, 14.9 x 30 instead of 13.6 x 28 with appropriately sized front tires? Then maybe the rear tires wouldn't have such a marked reduction in traction. By the way, yes, it does have an analog speedometer and it dropped from 4 mph to 3.5 by disconnecting the MFWD. Thanks everyone for the input! ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-21 145961
Lwayne, didn't you say that when you disengaged the 4wd your speed slowed? If this is correct the reason is very simple. The front wheels instead of pulling their share now become a liability and causing drag due to them now plowing if the soil/stone was loose.
Also, my 33HP New Holland has full time 4x4 and the optional selectable Sensitrack 4x4. Sensitrack allows the operator to drive as if they were in 2wd, until one front wheel starts to slip a clutch seamlessly engages and takes over. Can't feel a thing.
I have about 600 hours on it and still on the first set of tires. Aside from chunks missing from use in broken concrete, thick patches from hitting angle iron and re-rod, tubes from nail holes and the like to keep air in them, they have about 85% tread on them if not more (R-4's). I drive as fast it will go (17mph) and for considerable distances on asphalt and concrete. If I had to guess how many miles on pavement, I'd say at least 100 miles.
If you having that much wear you might want to see if you the right spec'd size tire (not what is stamped on it but tire circumference which varies from tire mfg. to mfg.) on the fronts and the spec'd air pressure.
Also look at the toe-in angle which may be causing wear. I ahev a bit of toe-in only on one side but like I say it hasn't been detrimental. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-09-21 145966
Guys; I'm sorry but I read it to mean that his speed increased when he dissengaged the FWA. If the speed dropped then yes the 15ft. I beam was a big load. Frank. ....
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| Lwayne
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 95
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2007-09-21 145967
earthworks: According to the literature all 4x20 series tractors from 35 hp to 50 hp have the same size tires. In my case that would be 8 x 16 R1's on the front and 13.6 x 28 R1's on the rear. I don't know that I'm particularly concerned about excessive wear, it's just that the words Front Wheel Assist to me implies that under "normal" operating conditions the tractor should function correctly in 2wd. Assist should not come into play on a graveled parking lot. For example, my last tractor (2wd) was 45 pto hp and the rear tires were 13.9 x 36; 5 less hp than my 4720 but larger tires. JD saw a need to put larger tires on a less powerful tractor at that time but now they seemingly say "use the MFWD only when you need it, even though we're under-sizing the rear tires." As a consequence they're requiring MFWD usage under conditions that used to be considered normal or else be prepared to wear out your rear tires too from being under-sized, again siting their one size fits all philosophy. Numerous competitors in the 50 pto hp range use 30" rear tires and even 20"-24" front tires. All this sounds like I'm complaining. The tractor works great. But the tires, in my opinion, should be larger to minimize the need for using the MFWD. I feel like I bought a 50 hp tractor with 35 hp tires. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2007-09-23 146002
You are right about the speed... I read it wrong. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-23 146010
"Assist should not come into play on a graveled parking lot."
Loose gravel is exactly the time you need 4x assist---think: a bunch of marbles. If not, you'll spin the rears.
It sounds like you have a system similar to mine in that once wheel spin is detected something engages the front wheels. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-09-24 146014
Never having played in marbles or loose gravel 4 wheel drive may be very much needed. Loose gravel parking lots are not common here. kt ....
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| Lwayne
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 95
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2007-09-24 146018
earthworks: I agree with your logic. Gravel can be slick. My original post was misleading in that regard. That being understood, the point I'm trying to make is if the manufaturer put rear tires on a MFWD tractor the same size as on an identical 2wd tractor the word "assist" would mean what it's supposed to. The FWA would come into play under abnormal conditions, such as ice, mud, heavy load, etc. Otherwise you're integrating the FWA into everyday operation, which is not proper design imho. ....
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