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Why buy a New Holland

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cobratodd
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 26
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2005-05-02          110598


I purchased a New Holland TC24 (2003) in April of 2004.
I was considering a "Chinese" brand, but figured the premium $$'s would be worth the quality and service from a big brand well know comapny.

I couldn't believe the prices of the New Hollands here in Connecticut so I found the best deal from a North Carolina seller. I saved almost $4500 honestly!! The best price I could get from Accorn Equipment for just the base TC24 was over $14k. For $16k I was able to get a TC24 with 60"MMM, Great Bend Loader, and a posthole digger.

I have had many, many problems with this tractor since it was delivered. Now I realy need help with a 3-point hitch issue and the local dealer (Accorn) says ..."If you didn't buy the tractor here, then we didn't make any money off of you at the time of purchase, so we won't do any warranty work for people who bought tractors out of state. We don't need the business. We lose money on warranty work."

So now I have a piece of crap tractor, that has no reliability, and No customer support.

Remember this if you are about to buy a New Holland.
1) The reliability could be the same as or worse than any foreign tractor. It's the luck of the draw.

2) The customer service is awful - if you live in Connecticut

3) If you have good service, then the dealer is likely to have raped you at the time of purchase.

I should have known better, the saying "Pay me know or Pay me latter" applies here.

I just can't believe the arrogance and disrespect of the local dealer because his business can't be reasonable with pricing. Amazing that I could save thousands, and still pay for shipping on the same tractor he sells. The kicker is this local company sells New Holland, and the warranty is from the manufacture. Why doesn't the manufacture back up their product through the dealership??

Once this TC is fixed, it's off to the market for a Chinese brand 30+ h.p. up grade. At least then I know I won't have the customer support.

Sorry for venting, thanks for reading.




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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-05-02          110605


"...If you didn't buy the tractor here, then we didn't make any money off of you at the time of purchase, so we won't do any warranty work for people who bought tractors out of state. We don't need the business. We lose money on warranty work...."

Give a call to your NH factory Rep and re-tell this story. The dealer is not required to drop everything and work on your tractor right away, but they are a NH warranty station. Your warranty work should get done. The only way this "attitude" of price gouging and poor customer service is going to get broken, is to get the factory Reps involved. This story has been told more than once here.

I'm sorry for your problems, and hope that you can get it resolved soon. Oneace will soon join this discussion. He works for a NH dealer and has very good info. ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-05-02          110609


Hey sounds like that last line of yours was surely venting when you said:

"Once this TC is fixed, it's off to the market for a Chinese brand 30+ h.p. up grade. At least then I know I won't have the customer support."

If you do that you will pray for the day when you had your TC. Clearly you priced your tractor at Accorn, so while it is not right I can see why they might give you a hard time, when you walk back in and ask for help. Tractor dealers are usually very small businesses, and some are not high at all on the service side while others may seek it out.

Many years ago I bought a Chevy at the low price dealer a good distance from me. I then needed warrantee work done, which I wanted to be done at a closer dealer. Got the "did you buy it here question", and they refused to even look at my car. So I went the Chevy customer service route and eventually got the the closer dealer to service the car, despite his previous refusal.

Well they serviced it alright, they put some kinda magnet thing on the roof that they used to keep track of work orders, well it flew off when they test drove it and put small scratches in the entire roof. Then they claimed that there was nothing wrong with the car and that was how they ran, rocking like they were missing a couple of cylinders. As the service manager spoke to me both us could see the car rocking violently from 50 feet away, it made me extremely angry when it was so obvious that they were just busting my chops. Well I gave them a piece of my mind blah, blah , blah to no avail. But I sure got the idea that quality and service was a subjective situation, and if they do not want to do the work, you really will be very unhappy with the outcome.

I took the car back to the dealer I bought it from and they had to replace the head, no questions asked no problem.

Now I know that almost all companies have changed their approach to service, to a service anywhere paradigm. But what I learned in the story I just told still applies even today, if they refuse at the get go, it just is not a great idea to coerce them to service your stuff.

Just 18 months ago I took one of the Toyotas that I had at the time in for warrantee on a paint issue, and I got the "did you buy it here question". After I said no with an explanation that I did buy my new pickup from them, I got no problem from them. I sure was not going to force them to work on it, I was ready to pack up and go to the selling dealer if any more flags were raised.

You will find that there is usually a dealer that will do your warranty service willingly, I recommend that you keep trying to find an agreeable dealer that will take your business, you just may have to travel further. You may pay more for hauling but hey you still saved money versus that local guy.

The link below is to the book by Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenace". There is a great section in there where he talks about taking his motorcyle into a garage where the mechanics are real losers, and basically whack the bike into submission rather than truly understand how it works and repair it. Classic....

Dennis

....


Link:   Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

 

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Casco1
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9 Eastern Mass.
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2005-05-02          110611


I'd like to relay my story it may help. While shopping for a NH tc33da I bought a Kubota L3710 with 68hrs I thought it was a better deal. I'm also from New England so the dealer network I don't believe is as good as other parts of the country. My unit was originally bought at MB tractor sales then traded into Chappell Tractor, where I bought it. I had a few problems mostly because it was my first tractor & I didn't take a few things into consideration. I wondered why the original buyer didn't trade it back in at MB Tractor where he bought it. Chapell's parts has been good, but the salesman has not returned one phone call since I bought the unit. A friend recommended Wescott & sons in Gorham ME I went there with a BH subframe problem Ordered a new frame, at this point Wescott could very well have taken advantage of me since I told them what to order after receiving the new parts close to $1000. They called me and told me it was not going to solve my problem and would refund all my $ I then cut a deal on New Tires, replace Turfs with R4s they gave me a great deal and a good trade for my old tires. my point being is that even though this dealer is 70 miles further than the other two I'll go there everytime. I spoke with one of the owners and told him that I did not buy there but It's his tractor now, and the service has been great. I suggest you bite the bullet and find a dealer who will take care of you I'm sure there is one out there. Good Luck ....


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grf2k4
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19 NW Washington
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2005-05-02          110613


I live in the NW and the pricing is really high compared to the ones I've seen in this forum, on everyting from tractors to implements. I do a lot of research before buying, and have been able to save quite a bit. My local dealer, who I bought my TC40a from had Jinma chippers for $2k. I drove 75 miles and got it for $1495. The TC 40 cost top dollar, but I used to have a grey market Yanmar and wanted easy access to service, parts, etc. So far the NH has been great. The dealer is top dollar, but also been excellent for service and carries top quality products and great service. I guess that's the trade off. ....


Link:   CustermtnFarm

 
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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-05-02          110616


One thing I see constantly is people doing something I call 'blitz shopping'. They go to a dealer, get a quote and then on to the next one, never to return or even speak to the prior dealer(s).

A guy I see at the local coffee house asked me about a similar problem recently. He had priced out tractors, including from the dealer just down the road, and found the best price was from a dealer about 4 hours away. He wanted to know what my advice was, buy locally for more, or drive further and pay less?

I told him to buy locally for LESS. He just stood there scratching his head. I told him to go back to the local dealer with the lower quote and inquire, as politely as he could, if maybe the dealer hadn't made a little mistake on the quote since the other quote was for so much less. He said the dealer looked his price over and sure enough, an ERROR!!! Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

In the end the local dealer matched the lowest quote.

I have found over the years delaers will almsot always match a price for the same item. They would rather make a little less money but have a customer.

You may want to point out to the dealer that doesn't want to do warranty repairs that NH does NOT offer a lifetime warranty and eventiuually he will see some of your money, but not if you don't deal with him.

Best of luck. ....


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cobratodd
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 26
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2005-05-02          110618


You can call it what ever you want.
I just can't see working a quarter of a year for free to raise enough money to pay for a product because the local guy wants top dollar.

Warranty is warranty.
Competitive pricing applies across the board.
Cars, trucks, home builders, computers, gas at the pump,etc.
....


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cobratodd
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 26
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2005-05-02          110619


What curtsey is owed to the retailer who wants to pork you for $4500 on a $15,000 purchase? (25%)

Follow-up??

None, I say! ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-05-02          110620


The reason the NC seller was cheaper in the first place was because they have less overhead. They don't have to pay for the service bays, tools and equipment, facility repair and maintenance, parts inventory, staff salaries, insurance, hazardous waste disposal, property tax, business tax, sewer tax, water tax, environmental levies, and payroll taxes to support out of state purchasers like yourself. All they need to sell tractors out of state is a computer, phone line and a parking lot. And they probably do it in NC because the business climate is friendlier there. The money to provide service has to come from buyers so the local guy wouldn't have just pocketed the extra money. Yes, the local guy should cheerfully service your machine and he sounds like an awful dealer. At least he's made no money from you. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-05-02          110622


Todd, take two deep breaths, no three, and think about what I said for a moment.

Courtesey was your word. As was it your statement that the local dealer wouldn't work on your machine.

My point was merely that IF you had given the local dealer a chance, they MIGHT have met, or at least come close, to matching the price.

In which case, your thread might have read a little differently.

Best of luck. ....


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cobratodd
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 26
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2005-05-02          110625


Sorry Murf,
The deep breaths were badly needed.
Also spell check would help me greatly.
I guess I got a little carried away.

Any way I have to live with the situation the way it is.
It's the dealers choice to service customers anyway he feels. If that means I'm not part of his customer base then I'm not part of his customer base.

For all of the poeple that have money to give away because that's just what the local market demands, than, more power to them.

Since I'm definately not a roll model, then at least I'm a bad example.

....


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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2005-05-02          110627


When I bought my tractor, I went to several dealerships for quotes. The purpose was to see whom I could get the best deal from. This included my local one. I then went back to the local guy (who knew I was shopping around). I shot him a lower number and he reworked his numbers. We came to a mutually satisfying deal.

These were the guys I'd be going to for service so I wanted to give him the fair chance at the deal. So for anyone out there looking to buy, it's ok to go back and shoot the dealer a lower figure. They are like car dealers in that you can haggle with them. Remember, they need to make some money, but the first offer is rarely the best they can do. Most good ones will drop a bit of you ask for it.

All you have to do is ask... Too bad that didn't work when I was a horned up teenager... ....


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grf2k4
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19 NW Washington
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2005-05-02          110645


In my area NW WA, both NH dealerships were owned by the same guy. Another guy owned both Kubota dealerships. JD was higher than both of them. It was a matter of seeing which brand gave the best deal, but they both are able to hold their prices up. I did talk him them down some, but it's still high compared to other places in the US. Not sure why. Maybe it's a combo of low competition and a long way to ship. It will be interesting to see how competition from foriegn products affects all this. Starting to see downward (price) movement in the implements, nothing as far as tractors go. It's just a matter of time. ....


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skyraiderad5
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 14 West Jordan UT
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2005-05-02          110647


There are "issues" with everything in life. I bought my NH from a local dealer and am glad I did. 1st I don't think I paid too much, 2nd the sales people, service man. mechs etc know me by name. They have repaired and serviced my machine while still on the trailer, because they know I use the machine to make a living. They have removed parts from new machines to keep me running. I shop the net for attachments etc, then talk to the dealer, I usualy end up buying from him. Maybe I was just lucky to find a good dealer. They are out there. ....


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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-05-02          110650


First off let me say that ALL TC24s are being liquidated at very low prices due to the tc26 coming and if you would have went back to you local guy after you got the NC quote
I bet you would have got a better price.

Second you got a very very cheap loader and does not even come close to the 12LA factory loader.(Great Bend is Bush Hog off brand).

Right know we are selling tractor loader mower packages for about 17K Tc24da 12LA 60" 914a.

Really I'm sorry for your situation but I am not at the same time. The statement that they loses money on warranty is true NH owes us over 3,000,000 for last years work.

i can try to help you with your problem you are having with your tractor if you want just let me know what the problems/symptoms are.

Long after the sweetness of a cheap price is poor service.

Go ahead and buy a Chinese tractor then you will really see the tractor on the back of a truck on the way to get fixed a whole lot more than any other tractor. ....


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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-05-05          110735


I bought from a dealer 2 1/2 hours away (pulling the rig). The next closest dealer that was even close to his price was 90 min. away. The closest dealer (an hour away) was $2600 more! This would be the same dealer that never returned me a call on a employee purchace price on a skid steer 1 year earlier. That "no returned call" X-NAYED them from my list perminantly. SO here I sit with a tractor 2 1/2 hours away from my dealer and I need a recall job done on it. (not an emergency but still needs to be done) My dealer told me they have a agreement with a local dealer (my local X-NAYED dealer) LOL. Anyway, I told MY dealer NO, I will haul it to them, I trust their sales and mechanics along with their way of doing buisness more than any other around. Thats my story. Here is my answer.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought so far away. I am very happy with the $2500 price savings. I am not happy about hauling it back. In my mind, its mind over matter. Although I don't like the idea of hauling it that far, I just keep reminding myself how much I liked the experiance with my dealer St. joeseph Equipment in Wi. I appreciated my salesman's advice and opinions he gave me when purchasing it and I will (sooner or later) take that road trip. All I can say to you is I am sorry you are having this bad experiance. I dont have alot of tractoring under my belt yet compared to others here but I can say that problems exsist in all manufacturing operations, not just New Hollands. The difference between the big 3 or 4 names and a grey market tractor, I feel will be so large you wont want to make that move you talked about.
I would write a bunch of letters and ask other dealers if they would like to do some warrentee work for you in exchange for a loyal customer the next time you buy new and also for repair work in the future after your warrentee runs out. A letter gives you time to explain how you NOW realize making a jump to anouther state for a cheaper price was not the best move you could of made. Also tell them that you may be interested in that new model thats coming out (after your warrentee runs out) Of course I suppose they heard that a hundred times before but it can't hurt? ....


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cobratodd
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 26
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2005-05-06          110743


Hate to say it, but I've lost faith in this company.
I was contacted by Corporate New Holland Customer Service (Jim) and he was going to talk to the dealership.

Have not heard anything since. Been 4 days.

Anyway I bought a book, trouble shot, and figureout what was wrong. The junk is running again so I can cut my lawn and do some maintenance.

Bottom line is, I will never buy a New Holland product again, nor would I ever recommend their products to anyone.

Buy something GREEN or ORANGE ....


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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-05-06          110783


Send me a private message and I will Get you the help you need. ....


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jamese
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 65 NC
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2005-05-10          110915


who in NC did you buy it from? ....


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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-05-10          110923


Oneace
Save your time and effort. Sometimes a company is better to cut its losses at the cord. Not all folks are going to be happy and some will really have problems with a machine no matter what they buy. After a problem occurs and it is not handled the way they want, nothing will rectify the feelings. I hope he finds peace with orange or green. Many folks are happy with their tractors. I am! I personelly dont like hearing someone call my rig a piece of junk nor do I like him ripping on a fine company (from the standpoint of making a nice machine anyway) There is no reason to argue or question his dislike for the rig. I dont see any pictures of his tractor, so for all we know he already has green and is just stirring the pot. Weather or not that is the case, I guess it doent matter. he will never buy blue again nor will he recomend it to anyone so the door is shut on this case already.
I could go on and on about how I am unhappy about New Holland having a recall on my tractor and not providing free pick up and drop off. It was their fault to begin with right? Why should I have to drive my tractor to the dealer! New Holland should? Right??? NOT, Thats just not the way it works. When buying a tractor most know the ball game going in. If you buy a long way from your dealer you can't expect to get the same service than from your neighbor unless you truck it there. A dealer that has a mechanical bay or two (just like with cars) sometimes makes or breaks the dealership. (In my mind anyway)
C Todd, sorry to hear you have not been happy, asap sell your tractor and buy one that will let you rest at night. Its not worth you losing sleep over or getting stressed out over a piece of garbage.
Good luck and we will see you over on the green or orange board soon, I hope! ....


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Finn
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2005-08-31          115742



(Useless Slam deleted by TractorPoint)
....


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Justus
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 179 Justus, Pa.
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2005-09-01          115748


Wow! ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-01          115749


This issue seems to come up periodically. I find this difficult to believe that a company would behave in this manor. Not that I am doubting the original poster. Again, I pose the issue of how ANY color dealer can justify denying service to an owner of their particular brand of equipment? Military service members buy tractors ........ they move all over the creation. I wonder if they would deny them???????? People move to different areas to find employment. Will they deny them? As I type this reply, this nation is involved in the largest humanitarian relief effort in its history, trying to recover from Hurricane Katrina. I am certain tractors are being trucked in from across and from all ends of the country ............ I am sure some of these machines with break .................. would any of these dealers deny service to these people?????

It just makes no sense or dollars and cents for dealers to behave this way. In my opinion, those that do; you would be VERY wise to stay away from and boycott.

I can understand that a dealer may be backed up with warranty work and you will likely have to wait your place in line. That's fair enough. To deny service is not only disgraceful but I wonder about the legality of it. ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-01          115753


cobratodd,

I can understand your disagreeing with Finn. I can understand expressing your frustration with some of his comments. Personal attacks and provocative, hostile comments do nobody any benefit.

You may want to keep in mind that you would NOT be able to make such comments or posts of this kind on any other tractor forum. I think you will find that NO other tractor board offers the experience, wealth of knowledge, and community Tractor Point does. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-09-01          115754


Gee, this Finn person isn't even a registered user. When a troll posts something like that behind a cloak of anonymity it's because they're stirring the pot and want to piss you off. By giving them what they want you're letting them call the shots. ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-01          115755


Ken, you beat me to it! I just about to post pretty much along the same lines. Well said! ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-09-02          115815


Useless comments by anonymous user Finn (IP=205.188.117.66) deleted by Tractorpoint ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-09-02          115816


To do an IP reverse look up and find the service provider of anyone who posts such garbage is a very simple, and free, thing to do.

Based on past experience elsewhere, a simple email from Dennis, or even a few users, will quickly get the IP service provider's attention.

This was done on another board I participate in. The 'anonymous' person found there internet service disconnected for violating their providers TOS (terms of service) agreeemnt.

Maybe America Online would feel the same way about "Finn".

....


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spider50
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2005-09-29          117133


Your NC retail location is leaving a bad taste for customers all over North America. Today his business is on eBay for sale. There are many reasons for all of this - Do you recall Crazy Eddie the electronic king in the NYC metro area? Maybe you'd recognize similar story.

A New Holland dealer is expected to do warranty work. The company does pay for warranty items, but not hauling etc. I hope by not you have gotten some support. Is it possible you did not approach him properly?
....


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spider50
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2005-09-29          117134


Some additional thoughts....what is the average wage in Connecticut Vs North Carolina? What is a skilled technican worth? What level of taxes do they pay? At the end of the day, are a businessman's cost of doing business the same?
What does it cost to buy gas in CT vs Mass, NY or elsewhere in the NE? Was the dealer in the same ballpark as NH, NY or MA? ....


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