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JD 4310 Snow Removal Help

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rkhalley
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2 Northern Indiana
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2005-07-29          114091


This coming winter will be my second at my new house. It has a fairly steep drive to get to the house. I own a JD 4310 with a FEL and industrial tires. Tires are not loaded and I do not have wheel weights. I have weight via three point hitch, but this doesn't seem to provide satisfactory traction. I would like to use a blade, so that eliminates my three point hitch weight.

What would be a normal set up considering the above that one would suggest.




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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-07-29          114092


The down & dirty way to do it is to make up, or have made up for you, a setup like in my picture # 15.

With some weight on the 3pth, I use a 1,000 pound box blade, and the FEL frame in the air as in the picture, you should have enough traction to plow downhill with no problem, and uphill in light to moderate snows, or heavy but dry snows.

As with your machine, the only weights I have are what is on either the FEL or 3pth.

Best of luck. ....


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JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 276 coxsackie,ny
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2005-07-30          114131


I have r-4 with loaded tires with my 790 and have a similar problem. R 4 are not very good in snow reguardless of weight.
I eliminated all traction problems with a set of tight automotive tire chains for the 14 x 8 r4 fronts ( you do not want to catch a tie rod/use many bungees)and a expensive set for the rear r4 "o"ring
no spin and it saves the tires to boot. ....


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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2005-08-01          114187


I also have a 4310 with R4's. Last winter was my first using it for clearing snow. I used a 6ft blade on the 3-pt and the loader. I do not have loaded tires. I had no problems going up or down my driveway (on a hill) while using the blade. All I did was make sure the MFWD was activated.

I did not have a heavy wet snow to clear, so I can't speak for that. But the MFWD was the big difference over my old 2wd tractor. ....


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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2005-08-01          114188


I forgot to mention that my drive is all gravel. Pretty crappy gravel, but not paved. The slicker surface of pavement may make a difference. I plan on adding a concrete pad in front of the garage before the snow flies. That may make a difference in my opinion of not using weight. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-08-01          114199


My #9 photo shows a home made set that is installed LOOSE so the chains will move on the tires.

I've only been challenged a couple of times not to back up any of the drives I do and I do 1 very steep one for the neighbor.

There is a lot of steel in this set. ....


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rkhalley
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2 Northern Indiana
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2005-08-01          114213


Thanks to all your help. Being my first post, I am quite surprised to find so many people trying to help. But Jazak5, you only have the chains on the front tires and all the tires loaded? I forgot to mention that the drive is concrete. Assuming that you have a concrete drive, does the chains mark the drive. I thought maybe just chains on the front might be a good choice. Do you use the blade a majority of the time? It seems like that would be a reasonable approach by not using the FEL doesn't unload the front weight as it seemed to do in float mode. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-08-02          114231


A word of caution about using chains on all 4 wheels.

A 4WD CUT has a difference in the front gearing over the rear, typically the front has a lead of about 5%, in other words, if the rear is doing exactly 5 mph, or 146.67' per minute, the front will be doing 5% more, or 154' per minute, a differnce of about 7'4" in one minute.

This doesn't sound like much, but when you combine too much traction, such as driving on a hard surface, or with chains on the tires, there is not much opportunity for wheel slippage to take up that 7'4" difference every 60 seconds.

The result will likely be accelerated wear on the driveline.

Best of luck. ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-08-02          114236


Murf,

I know you wrote on this before that using chains on a hard surface works against the principle of chains, as chains need to sink into something to get bite, concrete offers no bite.

You will probably get some occassion marking on the concrete also.

....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-08-02          114239


Dennis, you are right of course.

But I suspect that any hard surface would give enough resistance to cause a problem.

If nothing else the lead/lag would cause some serious scratches in the finish of the concrete.

We plowed for years on turfs without any traction aids. Now that we plow on R4's we are seeing unprecedented tire wear.

Best of luck. ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-08-02          114243


I snowblow and pull a grader blade with turfs on pavement and they give great traction without chains. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-08-02          114247


When we took on a large contract to provide sidewalk snowplowing to a municipality near here the first thing they said was we had to run R4's instead of turf's.

The reason given, by the 'fleet manager' was because the
R4's are the best-suited tread for snowplowing available.

I replied they probably were ...... if we were in Miami.

Best of luck. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-08-02          114255


GEEEEEEEZE Murf ya gotta love Government... Next they will have some moron engineer with 3 degrees saying which tire brand to use.

Some smart tire guy will find that government dope and show it how Larry, Mo & Curly XPO711 sno-bitters are the best and good smart officials should recomend them in their contracts...
....


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JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 276 coxsackie,ny
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2005-08-02          114262


Im back ,been working ot.
my fronts have "cable" chains and they "roll" a little giving what I need to steer.
the rears with "o" rings are max traction but they do not have the lugs ,they do not hurt my "oil stone "drive way no worse than a scraper blade
alittle stone dust and asphalt in the spring and "good as new" ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-08-03          114280


Actually Harvey we had a big chuckle about the contract to begin with. The whole thing has been a first class FUBAR since day one.

Here's the way it worked.

City Parks Mgr. & Works Mgr. decide to split the cost of a fleet of CUT's, they will do parks work all summer, and snow removal all winter. So far so good.

Then, after the fleet arrives, they decide it is counter-productive to trailer them all over the city between sites, so they decide to merely road them between sites. Again, not a bad idea, per se. Except, they now have a fleet of really nice expensive trailers, custom built for the job, that are surplus. They sell, I buy, at a slight discount off what they paid, Ok, BIG discount. I tell them at the time I'm buying the trailers, DO NOT road them in 4WD, nothing good will come of it. They are talking of distances of 15+ miles a DAY on pavement.

Fall comes first year, all machines have bald front tires, hmmmm, Murphy did say to take them out of 4WD before roading them, oh well, live and learn. Phone dealer for a bunch, and I do mean bunch, 14 sets of 212/80D15 full turf style front tires. "They cost how much each???" $250 a pop, $500 a machine times 14 machines, 7 grand.....

Phone regular tire supplier they use for the rest of the vehicles in the fleet. No cheaper, but offers instead to supply them with P215/75R15's for $50 bucks a pop, $100 a machine, now just $1,400 for the whole thing, installed!!!

Done deal. Fleet back out on the streets and doing snow removal around city buildings and in parks, not sidewalks.

Spring comes, front tires are again bald, again tire supplier brings $1,400 worth of tires and installs them. Tire man now likes CUT's a LOT.

During routine maintenance and inspection before grass season starts, mechanic notices slight noise in drive-train when turning cormers and 4wd / 2WD shifter is also VERY hard to operate. He phones dealer to talk to Factory-trained wrench-swinger, bad news, suggests a call to their biggest CUT customer, Mr. Murphy. No good news there either.

Meeting called between City staff, Parks, Works, Fleet & Purchasing and Dealer Staff, Mr. Murphy is there at the request of the dealer.

City Staff didn't read the owners manuals, didn't listen to Dealer, didn't listen to Mr. Murphy. Request for warranty work is refused for entire fleet, each one needs a complete new TX.

City declares entire fleet of CUT's was merely an 'experiment' and while they decide they don't want to own any from now on, they like the concept.

City decides to go forward with the use of CUT's, but under contract, supplied with contractor's own operators and maintenance staff. Price is to include everything BUT tires and fuel.

See my picture # 6 ......

I just think of it as a 'tax rebate' sort of thing......

Best of luck.

....


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