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john madland
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2001-05-13          28113


I'm about to buy a TC25D with a 7308 loader primarily for snow removal and maintaining 20 acres. Am I right in assuming that I can use the loader with the bucket tipped down to plow and remove snow from a long paved driveway?



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Roger L.
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2001-05-13          28115


Some people do it that way if the snow is light. I've never mastered the art. It is easier to me to use a back blade. ....


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Don M
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2001-05-13          28118


I agree with Roger. A blade that you can angle, whether in front or back, is the tool for snow removal. Or a snowblower, but that's more for deep snows.
You can remove snow with a bucket but after the first bucket-width is pushed it will be a big mess because on subsequent passes snow will keep sliding off to the middle of the driveway.

Back blades are relatively cheap and handy. I'd go that route. There is debate on this however. If you will be pushing snow often and/or don't mind spending more money, you can probably get a front blade for that tractor. It will function just like a snowplow blade on a pickup truck. But either way, get a blade.

-Don M ....


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MarkS
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2001-05-15          28214


I have to agree with the rear blade approach. For the money it works great. I bought an inexpensive $150 blade from a local farm supply store and if you don't beat on it hard i works find for snow. I wouldn't use it for ramming into any piles, but thats never a good idea anyway. I'd also agree a front blade may work a bit better, but I'm sure the cost is much higher. ....


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john madland
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2001-05-17          28295


Thanks for the input. I was hoping to keep attachments down to a loader and a mower, but I live in heavy snow country (Wisconsin) so I guess I'll probably need a blade too. Wife's going to love this, I already told her a bucket was all that we would EVER need. Anyone know some good lawyers? One for bankruptcy and one for divorce. Ha-ha-ha. Should of bought a horse! ....


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BeeFarmer
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2001-05-17          28297


How about a hyd front blade.. is it worth a darn? ....


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Don M
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2001-05-17          28306


Yeah, but you can get a 6' rear blade for less than $200 at Farm & Fleet.
So that's not so bad.

-Don M ....


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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2001-05-18          28330


Depending on where in Wisconsin I might be looking for a snowblower for your job. You might find it a little tough for a backblade after a couple of big snowfalls. Check out some of your neighbors and see what they are using. ....


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RegularGuy1040
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2001-06-03          28926


I live in New England and thought the same thing when I bought my Kubota 2710 (that I could remove snow with the loader), so that's what I did the first year. In the float position it worked pretty well for me, but my driveway (500') is paved and also pitched to one side. You do have to make extra passes. What concerned me is that it grinds the loader. So last year I bought a rear blade (6' blade for 5' wide tractor to account for angle). Plow backwards works fine and you still have the loader to push back banks. Cut my plowing time in half. But we got so much snow last year and I spent a lot of time pushing back banks to get ready for the next storm, so this year I am buying a used 5' snowblower. Hope that helps. ....


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Bruce Voss
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2001-06-13          29241


I totally second what "Regular Guy" says about needing a blower. If your lane/drive and yard are not level or are graded higher up than surrounding area like many midwest drives are, during the heavy snows, a blade will not be able to push away the masses of snow far enough from the drive. An angled blade pushes new snow into the previous old snow and eventually the useable drive becomes very narrow. One windy storm will block that in quickly. Then you are stuck with no where to go with the snow. Of course if the grade allows you to use a loader or blade to push the snow far off the drive then you are in better shape. Still a blower would be alot faster than that method. The most important point on the blower is that it isn't wimpy. ....


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David Keith
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2001-06-13          29246


I had to make the same choice, and I live in upstate ny where we get
150+ inches of snow, for me I chose a snowblower, and did not buy the front
loader. The only problem is a six foot NH front mount blower is very expensive a rear mounted blower is less but a little harder to use. ....


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Taylor Lambert
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2001-06-16          29342


Here in the South we dont get alot of snow, But my cousins in Vermont had a 1/4 mile drive way and lots of it. He liked to use his loader to move the snow mostly but wanted to cut a wider path and still be able to pile it. The next time he visited i cut the side out of a large diameter pipe made a clamp on mount the clamped to his bucket then made it angleable. He still uses it today. I think the total cost was 45 dollars for bolts and the section of pipe. ....


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Ray H
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2001-06-21          29491


I have an ATI quick hitch with remotes down the FEL and plan on welding my 8 ft plow setup from the old beater to a blank ATI plate. Buddy has similar setup and he can push the snow better than a plow truck and pile it over ten feet high. Works very well here in New Hampshire and is cheaper than a blower. (Blowers don't work well on gravel driveways) This setup works better than a rear blade since you can push back snow to the height of your FEL ....


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john madland
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2001-06-21          29497


Thanks for all the advice; this is a great website for information. I ended up with a NH TC33D w/ 7308 FEL which I got yesterday. Boy is it fun! Spent my childhood on a farm and am now back in the country after many grueling years of hard work. There's nothing like hearing an old rooster and smelling diesel fuel in the morning! I feel sorry for people who had to live their whole lives in the city. Anyway, my dealer told me to try using the loader in the "float" position when moving snow,since my driveway is long but relatively flat with no trees, bushes or other obstructions. You can bet I'll be on the phone to him the first time I get jammed up. ....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-06-22          29510


I suspect that you won't be too happy depending on a loader to do snow removal on a long drive. My loader works OK when floated for light snows. For heavier snows, the snow doesn't clear off the front of the bucket, snow is mostly pushed ahead until the traction breaks. Blades are better because a blade curls snow ahead of the blade and clears it off the blade ends. If the blade is angled, the snow comes off one end of the blade, which is usually what you want, or some ploughed snow is left in the middle of the drive to plough again. Even so, I wouldn't be without my loader during the winter. I have to use it for stacking and clearing some short runs. I use a 3ph blower, but I also clear snow with the loader until the gravel freezes. A blower will sink into gravel and start making gravel showers until freeze-up unless the blower has huge skid plates or fat gauge wheels. However, the same can be said for a blade. A loader bucket floated and riding on its bottom won't sink. ....


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JeffM
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2001-06-22          29516


John, I used my loader last winter in the Adirondacks of NY and had no problem, just took a little longer. I had posted pictures earlier this year with the 10 foot high snowbanks everywhere. We got 6-7 feet of snow in March alone. ....


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TomG
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2001-06-23          29537


Yes Jeff, I remember the pics--pretty impressive. That's one of the reasons I won't give up my loader during the winter. Some places I just have to stack snow or push it back, and a loader seems the best way. I also have to use the loader for my drives until freeze-up, after which my blower takes over. If we get a heavy snow before freeze up, I can hold the blower up with the 3ph, but just taking my time and doing it with the loader seems better. I didn't mean that loaders don't work for snow removal, because I do use my loader. I just think that blades and blowers work better and take less time. Of course, ground speeds when using blowers are pretty slow. Blowers probably save time only if there's a need to push back plow berms several times during the winter. Blowers also don't work very well from the middle of a parking lot. ....


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harvey
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2001-06-25          29593


John you will be fine with just a loader. I would not recommend tipping the bucket down however. I plowed my 1/4 mile and parking ares with a 4' box scraper for a couple of years, it did get old but it sure beat the alternatives. You will be amazed at how much snow you can move with a loader bucket. We used to do all of our areas with old trip buckets and home made blades THEN we moved up to 4010 with a 4' siliage bucket. Drove on top of sides but it sure beat the old trip bucket. Have fun with the toy in the snow. ....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-06-27          29634


Harvey: I'm curious if you used your box scraper forwards or backwards. I thought about putting mine on for a try, but the freezing rains of two years ago didn't happen. Two years ago, we had 3" of glaze ice that was driving me wild. I wanted to try using scarifiers to tear up the ice surface but didn't have my scraper then. I know that scrapers are sometimes used forwards in parking lots, because they can pull snow out from between parked cars without pushing snow underneath them. In general, I think that loaders for snow removal work adequately for many people, but I think their limitations should be understood. It's mostly a question of time. With my Ford 1710, the loader works much like a plow if the snow is less than a foot. Over a foot, I go 20' - 30' or so, the traction breaks and then I have to shovel a few buckets off to the side before continuing. It works, but it takes time. It would work better if I had a larger bucket. How well it works also depends on the surface, tires, weight and ballast. I'm running turfs without chains or loading, but the 550# blower on the 3ph does provide ballast. The point I'm making is that a loader is equivalent to a blade for plowing only for fairly light snows. For heavier snows, a loader works, but a fair amount of time is spent shoveling rather than plowing. Of course, chains would increase the depth of snow where a loader works like a plow. I'm in Northern Ontario where it gets cold. I have no cab and no HST, so I guess I don't want to spend a lot of time removing the snow, and I wouldn't want to depend entirely on a loader. Your point about the bucket angle should be noted. A bucket edge or blade can really scar up paved surfaces. One advantage of a loader is it can be floated with the bucket angled up so the edge doesn't catch the surface. Actual plow blades have composite blade edges that don't mar pavement. I only angle the bucket down when I'm trying to cut down ice by holding down pressure and back-dragging, which is something I can do on gravel, but probably isn't a good idea on pavement. ....


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harvey
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2001-06-30          29721


Morning Tom, Outta town for a couple of days. Comming up on a dairy farm we used whatever to clear a path for the milk and feed trucks. I've been off the farm for many years. When we bought this dump (because I DUMP lots of money in it) I borrowed my uncles small 1900 Ford. Hired lots of backhoe and dozer work done. Borrowed big dozer during off season to dig pond. Anyway after using 1900 felt the best way was a small compact Ford15004wd used was added. Bought a slip scraper to use forward or backwards. I have moved "ALOT" of dirt with that. I was down in Virginia and found a used JD 4' box blade missing a couple of scarfers. Bought for a $100. I used that 2-3 years to move snow here in Central NY. I pushed backwards most of the time and pulled fwd on light snow when I could. I've used the 3ph 4' snow blowers (saw a light weight used one in a backyard rusting and stopped bought it) on the heavier snow. I've played with my Ford for 13+ years here. Traded on a 4400 with 430 and 60'bucket. I also use a 72' landpride scraper blade (bought when I could afford it and I needed the angle capibility) to move snow. My primary weapon is the scraper blade with the cutting edge turned backwards so I do not cut the drive. It skims it. I guess my point is: Any way you can move snow or dirt or stones with out manual labor SWEATING is the best way. If time is a constraint then you'll have to spend some money. I was looking at a used town truck "V blade and a wing for $2000 take me 5minutes to do the drive. Now on the really heavy snows we got last year, first year with my 4400 I found I used the loader lots. Traded little dinky snowblower with the ford. But I still enjoy playing in the snow. You were having problems with ice. I hate rain and frozen ground. I try to leave my drive covered with snow if we are expecting rain. The snow protects the drive and no ice when removed. I watched road crews in Akaska deal with ice they use a BIG grader with a serated cutting edge. I've not been able to scratch ice except with my tire chains holding one brake and let the other one chew and release brake a little to move. I think this year I'm gonna bring home some 1A stone to sprinkle on ice if I get any. ....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-06-30          29724


Harvey: Thanks for the comments. Backwards was how I was planning to use the scraper as well. I figure I can shorten up the top-link enough so the scraper would ride on the back if its front cutter and wouldn't sink in the gravel much. Still don't know if the scarifiers would do much to ice. Fortunately we haven't had a repeat of two Decembers ago when there was one freezing rain after another--nothing helped much. I started joking about drilling holes in the drive and practicing ice fishing. We probably agree on two fundamentals of snow removal: Plan where it's going to be put before it starts snowing and don't plow before a rain. I probably like my blower because I don't have to plan--just keep blowing it out into the yard. It even blows slush half-decent. I figure if I plowed, I'd probably get it wrong and would end up with a 5' wide drive. Have to trade the truck in on a Toyota before spring. ....


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frans
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2001-09-04          31572


How about tire chains? Are they worth the money? Are there different types? I plan on plowing a 800' driveway with a fairly steep section in it. Are the ladder type chains better or do they tear up the undelaying gravel surface more? ....


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TomG
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2001-09-05          31587


Chains probably are good for plowing. I haven't needed them for blowing and loader work on my gravel drive. There is a tendency for ladder chains to fall between the cleats on ag tires, but there's some discussion about that in the archives. There's also probably some discussion about the merits of chains on front, rear or all tires on 4wd tractors. If I had chains, I’d put them on all tires or rear only. Nothing much tears up frozen gravel, but almost anything tears it up before freeze-up. It's good to have big skid-shoes for the blade. A heavy snow fall before freeze-up might have to be removed in several passes to reduce the traction needed so the wheels don’t slip. Almost any tire, with or without chains, will burrow pretty fast if the wheels slip. ....


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Murf
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2001-09-05          31598


As for traction Tom, it is a coin toss whether a half cut is easier or not, since a half cut means the tractor is still driving on snow and not a plowed surface. We have found by experience (often the best teacher) that the fastest way to clear deep snow is to angle the blade as far as practical and roll the snow off (kind of like a earth plow does) in multiple deep passes. In the 'old' days all the rural snow plows were V-type plows, anyone who has ever used one will tell you that it tooka LOT less power and would go through MUCH deeper drifts than todays 'modern' one-way blades. As for rear-blades on compacts, as Tom mentioned, skid-shoes are essential on soft surfaces, angling by drastic shortening the upper link will help, BUT, it also transfers a LOT of force onto the upper link in a direction that it was never meant to bear it, so EXTREME CAUTION should be exercised, if you were moving at a good speed and hit something buried in the snow you could be out of snow removal and into the repair shop. If the surface freezes solid with ice, try spreading sand or even ashes (although messy) from a wood stove, with barely any UV energy the dark colour absorbs the UV rays, converting them into heat and melting the ice, even slight melting will result in the sand (or whatever) re-freezing inot the surface resulting in a sandpaper-like surface with much improved traction. Boy is it strange typing this in 90 deg heat under a palm tree.....Best of luck. ....


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Anthony M. Parente
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2001-09-05          31608


I have a Curtis 7' power angle plow set up with quick tatch brackets for the FEL on a JD4700. The springs on the mold board prevent damage and I can pile the snow up as high as the loader will reach. It works great, but it is a little expensive. Those among us who are skilled welders have converted used plow setups from pickup trucks.
Tony,

BTW, to avoid a divorce, tell the little woman how much you are saving by doing all of the tractor work yourself. (Choose a generous hourly rate!) ....


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