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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-07-11          113303


My wife needs a new SUV and I am torn between the truck-based SUV's (4Runner, Explorer, Pathfinder, etc) and the car-based ones (Rav4, Highlander, Pilot, etc). She has to drive a rough gravel road 10 miles a day. Would the car-based unibody type vehicles hold up to this punishment? We want something that will comfortably seat 4 but still get decent mileage. Anyone have long term experience with unibody SUVs on rough roads?



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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-07-11          113305


I have driven both in Alaska (and family members still do) and never saw any difference in the longevity.

The only significant difference I can see between the two styles is the towing capacity. Most uni-bodies are really not rated to tow more than a token trailer. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2005-07-11          113308


I'm asking because our Taurus has suffered several broken body welds due to the vibration. It's unibody, and apparently flexes a great deal. ....


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-07-11          113312


Sorry. I was talking about Nissan's, Mazda's and Toyota's.

Different league I think. ....


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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-07-11          113313


Suv's are rarely truck based any more. Look at a new explorer or any of them. Independent suspension all the way around. But all of them will hold up pretty well because of this. There is less flex in the chassis and more in the wheel area. ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-07-11          113314


Ken, I would strongly suggest taking a look at the Jeep Renegade CRD. It comes with a 2.8 liter diesel which will get your outstanding mileage and from what I hear, the Renegade has a decent reliability reputation. They are not huge land yachts but are compact as well as 4 door and easily accomdate 4 to 5. If I can get 24 to 26 mpg with my Dodge Cummins, I would think you would get at least 30 mpg and more like 40. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-11          113316


Randy, do you mean the Liberty CRD? I looked at those, and there are a few things about them that put it further down my desireable list. For one, they have a rocking sort of a ride where it rocks front-to-back. The CRD isn't discounted like the gas versions, and the payback just doesn't seem to be there for the price premium. The gas engines get terrible mileage for such a small vehicle and the CRD mileage is reported as being disappointing - less than you get with your Cummins in fact. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-11          113317


oneace, maybe I shouldn't have said "truck based", rather body-on-frame as in the subject line. Although Edmunds does refer to the Explorer and 4Runner as truck-based SUVs. A V6 Explorer would be perfect for her, and they are heavily discounted now, but I'm having a real hard time with the idea of buying another Ford. ....


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Chief
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2005-07-11          113318


Ken, my CRS has confused my CRD's! LOL! Maybe you have read better info. than I have. I lot of folks over on TDR are drooling over them. I am disappointed in that they do not come with a manual transmission option. I was not aware that the their mileage was so poor. I find it tough to see how a diesel half the size of my Cummins pushing less than half the weight could get anywhere near the mileage my Cummins gets. The Volkswagen TDI's I hear are getting between 40 to 50 mpg if you go really easy on them. I have been watching and waiting to get more buyer review info. on the LIBERTY (got it this time ;O) CRD to see how they hold up for the long term. I still think they would be a good option unless they are just a total lemon. The engine I heard although being Italian built is supposed to be a subsidiary of Detroit Diesel. When our Ford Taurus craps out; I will be replacing it with a diesel of some kind. ....


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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2005-07-11          113320


What about a GMC Envoy? They are also going very well $$ wise. Or an AWD Chrysler Pacifica? They use almost all Benz- components and get good mileage. They too are being discounted. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-11          113322


I was surprised that the CRD mileage was so poor. I've read several sources that say the gas Liberty gets 16-17 mpg and the Jeep website says the CRD gets "up to 32% better mileage". Assuming the optimistic case that Jeep's numbers are accurate, that puts it around 21-23 mpg which seems pretty poor for a vehicle that small. The competitors gas engines do nearly that well, and the $5k CRD premium would buy a lot of gas! ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-11          113323


GMC is another brand I wouldn't buy, but I hadn't considered a Pacifica. We looked at the Dodge Magnum with the Hemi that can shut off four cylinders, but that's not being discounted. Thanks for the tip on the Pacifica! ....


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Chief
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2005-07-11          113324


Ken, I would take those CRD reviews with a grain of salt. Many of those reviews were based on driving at 70 to 80 mph on the highway. The mileage on my Cummin drops like a simonized piano if you drive much over 60 mph and the sweet spot is about 47 mph running empty.

Here is a Canadian test that reported 27 mpg city and 35 highway. That sounds more in line with what I would think to be reasonable. With a few tweaks, I think 40 mpg would be easily within reach. ....


Link:   Test Drive: 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD

 

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kwschumm
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2005-07-11          113326


The Jeep website claims 17 mpg in town (with no highway number). Since most of our driving is in-town that's the number I'm working with. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-07-12          113338


Randy, the CRS is worse than you thought there buddy.

When you read a Canadian test report and they give mileage in both litres per 100 kilometres, and MPG, don't forget they are talking about Imperial gallons (equal to 4.55 litres) not US gallons (equal to 3.78 litres).

27 (Imperial gallon) MPG = 22 (US gallon) MPG

35 (Imperial gallon) MPG = 29 (US gallon) MPG


Best of luck. ....


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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-07-12          113341


Ken:
I would recommend the Ford Explorer with 4.0 L V-6. I bought a 2004 last year for my daughter at year end and got a good price + employee discount. ( I know the dealer) She has 16,000 miles on it now without any trouble. I think the body over frame is what you want. Highway rating is 20mpg. You can adjust it for AWD to true 4X4. With the heavy discounts, that is the best buy for your money.

I'm looking at purchasing another vehicle and am looking at the Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner with 3.0L V-6. I already have my F-250 and my wife has a Lincoln. Escape/Mariner is a uni-body construction and basically FWD with the rear kicking in as AWD. It is rated as 22/23 highway. I'm looking at it for basically highway miles going up-north 100 miles each way and yet have some AWD capabilities in town, etc. for snowstorms. I think Escape/Mariner is more like a car/station wagon and does have a good incentive but not like the Explorer. Ford also has the Free style that is based on Valvo models and is a stationwagon/SUV available in AWD. It doesn't have much discount.

I've also found the ratings of the Liberty to be bad on fuel economy and the diesel doesn't seem to get it.

The Jeep Grand Cherokee has a 3.6L V-6 that is underpowered and rated for 21 mpg. I tested one last year an a wash board gravel road and it drove nice. You may want to test drive one of these.

The Chrysler Pacifica seems nice but the rear and side windows are very short. Visibility is bad.

The GMC Envoy and Chevy Trailblazer get poor mileage. I hear about 16/17 on highway.

If you wife is driving a Taurus now, just go to a Ford dealer and drive the new Ford 500 limited in AWD. It has more internal room than my wife's Lincoln Continental and the leather is so plush, you both will fall in love with it. Mileage is about 26 mpg. Not allot of discount. The Mercury version has nicer outside styling but the interior is not as plush. Ford has gone a long way in the last few years. I would recommend driving all 4 models and take it over the roads you are driving daily.

I can't comment on any import manufacturers, since they are not allowed in my household by my ruling.

....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2005-07-12          113343


Pete, the 4.0L 4WD Explorer would be perfect. We had relatives visit from out of town and they rented a Mercury Mountaineer AWD. That was really nice but it was sickening to watch the electronic display show 13.9 mpg on the highway during a trip to the coast. Our small town has only one dealer, a Ford dealer, and Ford service would be most convenient for us. But we have had so many problems with our last three Fords I am very reluctant to risk it again. ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-07-12          113344


Murf, I think that CRS is rubbing off. ;O) VERY good call on your part but I think the milage is even worse than that. With the proper amount of coffee in me; I converted 10.5 l to 2.774 US gallons and 8 l to 2.1134 gallons and that came out to 19 & 25.5 mpg if the conversion table I used was correct. MUCH worse! I still can't believe a diesel that small in a vehicle that small gets that kind of mileage. Even the Ford Excursion with the PowerStroke which weights over double what the Liberty weighs and has over double the engine displacement gets over 20 mpg. Just doesn't make sense. I think something is not being computed right or Jeep has a huge problem with this vehicle. If these mileage numbers are in fact accurate; then the Liberty gas about the same mileage average as my Dodge Cummins! That's crazy.

....


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yooperpete
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2005-07-12          113345


Ken:
Many of the Mountaineers have a V-8. I had a 1997 Mountaineer V-8 AWD that I traded in last year with 139,000. It got about 17/18 on the highway. If you look at the mileage rating on the stickers you will find that the constant AWD of the Mountaineer has a slightly less rating than the Explorer comparably equipped.

The water pump, belt tensioning idlers, electric seat motor and right lower ball joint went out at about 130,000 to 137,000 miles. To some, that may be allot but I don't think it was bad. I only bought tires and brakes on it once! I should have sold it at 129,000 or kept it to 170,000. One of the guys I work with has a 96 Explorer Eddie Bauer with 169,000 miles. He hasn't had a bit of trouble.

That electronic mileage gauge is instantaneous and only shows those bad numbers on hills, etc. as far as I know. ....


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jimbrown
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2005-07-12          113346


My wife drives 23 miles of dirt road every day. She has a chev Avalanche it may be bigger than you want but she loves the thing it is two years old and never had a wrench put on it. The chev Colorado is similar just one size smaller. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-07-12          113353


Randy, the mileage isn't crazy, well, actually it is but I digress, it's the efficiency, or more particularly, the lack thereof, that's way out of whack.

It's long been known that a powerful efficient engine barely working will get the best mileage.

The Cummins is a perfect example, a very efficient 6 cyl. engine with gobs of torque, and geared correctly.

When my wife wanted an SUV instead of the sedan she was driving I let her run around and look at all the models, get prices and drive them, while I sat at home waiting & smiling.

When she had narrowed it down to 3 models, a Cadillac Escalade, a Lincoln Navigator and a Jeep Grand Cherokee, I took her to the Land Rover dealer and we drove a Discovery (now the LR3).

There was no comparison, in price, ride, quality or luxury. In fact it was cheaper than either of the Lincoln or the Caddie, and Iwon't buy a GM and would think long and hard about a Chrysler anything.

What really sold her on it was the customer we met while looking around before the salesman was finishing up with another customer. An older fellow was having his Rover 'serviced' (it's what the Brit's call an oil & lube), when she asked him how he liked it he raved about it, never a problem, rides like a dream, never any repairs, just routine maintenance and consumables (brakes, tires, etc.) yada-yada-yada. Then she asked him how long he's had it.

20 years and nearly 500,000 km. (almsot 300,000 miles).

It's always cheaper to buy a quality product.

Before anybody jumps on the "import" bandwagon, Land Rover is a Ford company, lock, stock and barrel.

Best of luck. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-12          113360


I have a friend who's a land rover technician. He says they're pretty reliable but they leak all the time. Any experience with leaks on yours Murf? ....


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Murf
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2005-07-12          113361


Ken, the only thing that "leaks all the time" is the driver (my wife), LOL.

I have to say, the ride & handling is something I could get used to pretty easy.

It's not a 1/4 mile champion, that's for sure, but it will comfortably run down the highway with 4 adults at 80+ mph without breaking a sweat.

It has a really torquey 4.6 litre V8 in it, first time I took it in the cottage road (read 'goat path') I was blown away, this thing claws it's way up big hills at barely above idle speed.

I may have to buy another one for myself as a daily driver.

Best of luck. ....


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HillelK
Join Date: May 2005
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2005-07-12          113362


We live in the mountains, lots of poor-fair roads and have a Chevy AValnche, GMC Yukon and a Honda Element.

If you're looking for best mileage, smaller like the Element is what to go with but the ride qulaity on a bad road is not great.

Our Avalanche -- which is the Z71 (off road package) and has on/off-road tires -- is DEFINITELY the most comfortable and controlable of all of our (and our friend's) vehicles on our roads.

The Yukon (which is also has the off road package) isn't that great -- better than the Element but not much better than most other vehicles.

I think that the Avalanche - between the suspension and the stiffer body/chassis and long wheelbase -- might be your best bet.

As an FYI, before getting the Avalanche we looked at a Ford 150 but the Avalanche was quieter, better handling and much shorter turning radius. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-12          113364


On Edmunds dot com they compute a total cost to own which includes purchase price, gas mileage, maintenance costs, depreciation and insurance. Most of the SUVs I've been looking at come in around 48-55 cents/mile. The LR Range Rover is $1.15/mile over five years. Holy Cow! ....


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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-07-12          113375


Try looking at Consumer reports for vehicles. It is sometimes scary to see some of the ratings for reliability and repairs. I sometimes just look through to find the worst rated vehicles on the road. It seems GM takes the cake and the rest of america follows not too far behind, while a coulple of the japanese companies have barely a problem in the ratings. The absolute worst rating I could find year after year was the GM van thing SAFARI or chevy Astro. I meet a lot of auto techs shopping in my Garden center and I always ask what vehicles they see too often. A Mercedes tech recently told me the diesels are golden and the worst is the sport ute model. Then he said guess why that model is so bad? I didn't know. He said it is built here adn have loads of problems. I asked a friend who has one and she agreed it was in the shop a lot. ....


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Murf
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2005-07-13          113410


Ken, I suspect there's a flaw in those numbers somewhere.

Considering the Range Rover is the same money, same or better mileage and likely more dependable than most of the other "luxury SUV's" out there.

I know dollar for dollar it would be hard to beat a Land Rover Discovery with anything else out there, especially when you consider the initial purchase price.

When I bought my wife's they were under $40k. loaded, and an Escalade was almost $70k. loaded. I've been in both Escalades (a friend has one) and the Navigator (my company has one) and the Discovery beats both hands down in ride and luxury, IMHO.

Best of luck. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-13          113411


Murf, I don't think they sell the Discovery any more. They sell a Freelander and an LR3 though. Not sure which of those is close to the Discovery. As far as Edmunds TCO ratings, the Navigator at $1.00/mile comes close to the Range Rover. Others are up there as well - the BMW X5 is .88/mile. They don't have a number for the Escalade yet. ....


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AV8R
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2005-07-13          113420


Ken-

We are currently doing the same search. We have driven and I have researched heavily, the Liberty CRD, and although it is a nice small vehicle, it neither has the mileage (21 city 26 highway on the sticker - 24mpg average, direct from an owner I know) or the size/comfort level we are looking for.

For the $25K + that they want for a Limited Liberty CRD, we are going to go with an "Off Lease" used Grand Cherokee Limited. Having owned three Grand Cherokees in the past ('94, '96, '99) we were very happy with the quality and performance. (2003 Grand Limited with everything and 34k miles is going about $20K right now) A Grand with the 4.7 V-8 will do 16-20mpg. I'll give up the 5 mpg advantage of the CRD for the luxury and size of the Grand. After you sit in and drive both you will agree.

I love diesels, and would gladly buy one, but I am a bit disappointed by the Liberty CRD. Maybe the motor will work better in the Wrangler next year (hopefully).

edit: A unitised body is fine for your application, too. Like stated before, the only thing a full frame wil give you is more towing ability. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-13          113423


AV8R, thanks a lot for your input. At this time we've narrowed it down to three choices - Jeep Grand Cherokee, Honda Pilot, or Toyota 4Runner. I don't completely trust Consumer Reports, but their reliability ratings give the Honda and Toyota the edge so we're leaning toward one of those. A neighbor has a GC a few years old and she has had a lot of trouble with it. Since we're in the boonies, trips to the dealer for service are a major problem for us so minimizing those is a very high priority. ....


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AV8R
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2005-07-13          113424


My experience with Grand Cherokees:

'94 had 185,000 trouble free miles on it (5.2 V-8)
'96 has 120,000 now and still going on the 4.0 six(Owned by the out-laws now)
'99 had 40,000 on its 4.0 six when it was traded it for the '01 Jetta TDI.

We are now looking for a 2003 or 2004 with the 4.7 V-8 and less than 36K. Pilot and 4Runners are great, but too much $$ for me, one doesn't see those on the used market (That must mean something!). ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-13          113426


We have a definite budget in mind, and there's a possibility the Jeep will be the only one that won't stretch it. If so, that may well be the way we'll go. The employee pricing and additional $2k discount is certainly an incentive. ....


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Chief
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2005-07-13          113427


Ken, I don't think this model is in the price range you were considering but did you look at the Volkswagen Touareg V-10 diesel? At least in theory a diesel will last longer and is a long term ownership purchase and theoretically will last much longer than a gasoline engine vehicle. The rumor mill has it that VW may bring the 2.5 liter 5 cylinder diesel next year as an option. That should lower the price a bit and boost the mileage well above 23 mpg. At least I figured this into when I purchased my Dodge Cummins. That is still a LOT of money to spend. The other thing I considered with a diesel is that in the event of a fuel shortage there will always be diesel. The green dye road taxed diesel may be just as short as the gas but not off road red dye diesel. During hurricane Ivan, Jebb Bush authorized the use of off road red dye diesel during the aftermath of Ivan for a few months. The other option is that you can make your own out of waste vegatable oil in a pinch if worst comes to worst. I know........I sound like the gun buff guy who lives with Reeba McCintire on the movie series Trembors. ;O) LOL! Just something to consider. ....


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kwschumm
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2005-07-13          113428


Yeah, I looked at the Touareg. It's really nice but out of our price range. The plan is to sell the Taurus and my Ranger and buy a diesel pickup too. Probably used, at least until the tractor is paid off next year. Here in Oregon the idiotic, moronic, and generally clueless governor wants to impose California emissions standards for no particular reason. It's not like we have a bad air quality problem here. The radio commercials against are implying that if that happens diesel vehicles won't be sold here anymore. ....


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Chief
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2005-07-13          113433


Is that the illegitimately "appointed" govenor who defrauded and stole the election? Or is she the gov. of Oregon that I am thinking about? I thought that happened in Washington. What do you expect from the extemist social-communist party? Diesels can be made to run pretty clean now. The VW diesels are computer controlled and you can buy software for your laptop to modify the power and output of the engine and then change it back for emision inspections. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-07-13          113436


You're thinking of the illegitimate Washington governor, Christine Gregoire. In Oregon it's the legitimate but incompetent governor Ted Kulongoski (aka Ted Tax-and-gouge me). ....


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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-07-14          113443


Here in Michigan our governor Jennifer Granholm, a Canadian by birth has done nothing but tax us. She has found new taxes on everything. She is now working on taxing internet sales.

Ford Explorer is still the best for your buck. A nicely equipped model (leather, moonroof, decent wheels and tires & sound system) has a sticker of about $34,500.00. With employee pricing and rebates you should get just slightly over $10,000.00 off. So for about $24,500.00 + tax & title fees you can take it home. I think that is allot of vehicle for the money. The same thing in a Trailblazer/Envoy is about $26,500-$28,500.00 with poorer mileage and not as good crash tests. The Jeep grand is about $28,500.00-$30,000.00 with the same equipment. You can cut prices slightly if you drop the moonroof and leather. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-07-14          113445


Ken, you're right, I thought I mentioned earlier, but maybe not, 2004 was the last year the Dscovery was in production, it was replaced by the VERY new LR3.

Which is, I'm told, all Land Rover underneath the skin, but what an ugly skin it is....YUCH!!!

In this area you can get a 2 year old "off lease" Discovery with about 20,000 miles on it for a little under $30k. with lots of factory warranty left.

For off-road capabilities about the only thing in the same class is likely sitting on tracks. After a short drive around the cottage road (including a short jaunt through the forest on the hiking trail) my Dad called it "a well appointed Sherman Tank with really nice seats" when Mom asked how it was.

A neighbour of mine had an Envoy on lease for work, in 24 months it had 17 MAJOR repairs and non-stop parade of little stuff, including the 4wd giving up 4 hours from home in a blizzard pulling a snowmmobile trailer, because a wire came loose on a sensor/switch.

After 17 of 24 months GM took it back when the 4th transmission failed, no questions asked.

I've driven an Explorer, they are too short a w/b and too soft a suspension, rough roads make them ride like one of those bucking bulls at the cowboy bars.

The Jeep is not bad, several family members have had them, still lots of little stuff though, switches broke, A/C was a constant headache and poor mileage. Mind you they were made prior to Daimler jopining the party. I assume the quality went up after that.

Best of luck. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-07-14          113448


Yooper, you're right that the Explorer is a heck of a deal right now. And they're very nice and really would be perfect for my wife. But I'm prejudiced by prior experience with certain brands. There is no way I'll own another GM. After our last three Fords I'm inclined not to own another one of those either. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is on employee discount now with another $2k cash back so it seems to be in the same ballpark as the Explorer. The odds are that the Honda or Toyoata would have the best reliability. The question is if that extra reliability is worth another $5k. ....


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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-07-14          113451


I have a 2002 Grand Cherokee Limited which I purchased new. Luxurious (by our standards), powerful, nice handling. We have had minor electronic problems (only 25K miles on it - my wife's vehicle). Someone at work had a terrible experience with a Jeep Cherokee, recommended I not purchase one - but I bought it anyway and paid extra for a 7 year warranty. I figured that reliability wasn't so much of an issue with the limited miles my wife puts on it. I have needed this vehicle to pull my 21 foot boat to the marina.

The only thing I don't like about the Jeep is the low vertical distance on the windshield. I have better visibility in my Subaru Forrester. ....


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-07-14          113466


I have a very good friend who is a Volkswagon Tech, and he was very vocal in NOT recomenting the Touareg, diesel or gas. They are an electrical nightmare right now. Untill they get all the electrical and computor bugs worked out, they are a $65K boat anchor ($75K for the diesel!). ....


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paulss
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 60 Lavaca County, TX
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2005-07-14          113475


Ken,

If you definitely won't go GM or Ford, I'd bite the bullet and buy the Pilot or FourRunner. I've got many friends that love their Grand Cherokees and an almost equal number that are extremely unhappy with theirs. Be sure to drive both the Honda and Toyota for a few miles as they are very different. My wife's vehicle is a Highlander (similar to the Pilot) and she loves it. After 3 years and 67,000 miles, nothing has been done except for normal maintenance. The brakes still have decent pad thickness!

Another choice may be the Nissan Armada or the Pathfinder. The Armada is based on the Titan pickup and has the best gas engine (V-8) in the class and the Pathfinder is all new and has more horsepower and torque than the FourRunner or Pilot. It is comparable to the FourRunner. If the styling doesn't turn you off, the Nissan Murano has a great powertrain and competes against the Pilot and Highlander. ....


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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-07-14          113478


I would agree with Paulss that an equal number of grand cherokee owners seem to love it as hate it. When I was shopping the reliability on Cherokee wasn't great but it seemed to be mainly electronic problems, at that time fairly advanced. I don't know if they have the bugs worked out by now. But I would pay attention to the tow capacity of the these vehicles. The cherokee has decent tow capacity, and soon or later it always seems you are going to want to tow with your vehicle. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-07-14          113481


paulss, thanks for your input. I thought the Armada was a little too big with lousy mileage. The Pathfinder just doesn't seem to have the rear legroom that the Pilot and 4Runner have - the legroom looks OK, but it's an illusion because the seats are really short. The 4Runner is now our first pick on paper - we need to price and drive 'em all though. ....


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dkheckmanl
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134 Middleton, ID
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2005-07-15          113487


We have a 05 4Runner with 10,000 miles on it. We really like the way it handles and the quietness out on the highway. The vehicle seems tight and the ride is pretty smooth but not as smooth as the more car like Highlander or even my longer wheel base Tundra. It does seem to handle good on a well graded gravel road. We havn't had it a real rough pot holed road yet. It was my wife's pick between the Highlander and the 4Runner. I also planned to drive the Pilot but once she drove the 4Runner her mind was made up and we never made it to the Honda dealer. Since she let me buy a new tractor last year, a new zero turn mower and ATV this year I thought it was fair that she get to make the decision on the SUV. As far as reliability goes I don't think you will go wrong with either a Toyota or a Honda. Whether you like how they handle depends on how they feel when you and your wife test drive them. I guess it is like buying a tractor you got to get behind the wheel and see what feels comfortable. I did find Edmunds to be accurate on their invoice and MSRP figures.
Good Luck and have fun looking. ....


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dkheckmanl
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134 Middleton, ID
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2005-07-23          113825


Ken, did you ever decide on a vehicle or are you still looking? ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-07-24          113826


We're planning to order a Toyota Highlander on Monday. We drove everything and my wife liked that the best and she will drive it most. With disciplined option selection we can get it for about $2k more than the Jeep+incentives. Neither of us really cared for the 4Runner - we both preferred the driving characteristics of the Highlander. The Jeep reliability is an unknown and the nearest Honda dealer is too far away for comfort. ....


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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-07-24          113859


From what I have heard, the Highlander is a typical excellent Toyota. My aunt has had one for several years, her first Japanese car. She is still thrilled. I believe it is built on the Camry platform also an excellent vehicle. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-07-30          114139


Just to close out this thread, we picked up a Highlander today. Ended up not ordering because they aren't making the 06's yet, the literature is not yet available, and a 2% price increase is expected while existing incentives expire. We found an 05 which is not our favorite color but otherwise equipped the way we want, except it's missing the rear spoiler which will get installed next week (hopefully that will keep the back window dust down on our gravel road). It looks like a great SUV for my wife, with good space utilization and pretty good performance/economy. For me the seats are a bit too short in thigh support, it has a surprising amount of road noise (maybe tires), and the radio reception is much worse than our Fords. Hope it proves to be more reliable than our 88 Corolla was. ....


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taheide
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 127 Capron IL
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2005-07-31          114170


Hmm I dont know why everyone dis's Ford. Right now I have 2 GM, a CV an F350 and an Explorer sitting in my driveway, all in good condition. As far as repairs go, nothing really out of the ordinary, A few suspension parts, and a fuel pump pretty much sums up the problems we have had with them. Granted Ford COULD have used better parts for the ball joints, but considering what VW has been having issues with, the Ford parts are having a better track record. The Explorer is OK, its not my type of vehicle, too small. I had a 97 V8 AWD, sucked gas like crazy, but held its own pulling a 7000lb horse trailer. Had an F150, never had an issue other than a faulty ground wire in the wiper motor which was covered under warranty. The only reason that was sold was I found an F350 Dually crew cab lariat powerstroke for a steal and traded it in on that. My wife has a 98 Explorer, and the only thing that has been replaced in over 113000 miles were the shocks and front rotors. As far as the other models they make, well cant comment on those since they are FWD and I will never own another FWD car after finding out the hard way just how hard it is to pull out of a spin in one of those once you lose all traction. I tend to like big cars and the Fords have never let me down. I cant say the same for GM, and Chrysler just doesnt do it for me. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-07-31          114172


In our case it's because we had two crappy Fords in a row. My business was their's to lose and they lost it. ....


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