Go Bottomnoisy lift
 | jke
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2003-03-05 50575
My Kubota b5200 has a noise when lifting. it sounds like gears clashing or a screech. this only happens when I lift slowly or less than full heighth. if I raise it quickly and full heighth it does fine.
there is no leak down and it lifts anything I have attached.
The noise happens with nothing attached but not as much.
Help and sugestions appreciated.
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2003-03-06 50610
gears clashing and a screech would sound like two different things but. to pick the pieces here it might be the relief valve. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-06 50614
I guess an open relief valve might sound a bit like a starter that isn't quite pulling the pinion gear into the flywheel.
I'm with Art and think it's probably some hydraulics sound. Oil does make a 'running' sound as it goes through valve orifices. The sound is a bit louder for small orifices and higher pressures. If you're feathering the 3ph with quite a load on the 3ph, then there are small orifices and high pressures as well.
If it is the relief valve, it's not normal operation for it to open both under heavy as well as no loads. It's also not good to run a tractor for too long with an open relief. The only difference I can think at the moment between full and partial lifts is that some 3ph's have a detent position at the top of the quadrant lever travel. If the 3ph has that feature, it's for feeding an external hydraulic port and it's not intended for normal 3ph operations. A 3ph that's out of adjustment will sometimes cause an open relief valve at the top of the lift rather than cure one.
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| jke
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-03-06 50643
Thanks for the suggestions.I am new at this and don't know much.is relief valve hard to change? and how do i check the adjustments
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-07 50682
From the description, I don't think a relief valve is the problem. They are pretty reliable and usually bad ones are found because bad ones usually result in low hydraulic power. Broken ones also usually don't make much of a sound because the system isn't able to develop very high pressures.
If the tractor has a loader, you can hear what a relief valve sounds like by rolling the bucket back as far as it'll go and then holding the valve open for a few seconds. The screech is the system relief valve. Power steering also can make similar sounds. If the sound you're getting isn't the same and the power is good then it's probably not a relief valve. 3ph's usually have their own reliefs but they're to protect against high load shocks and are set higher than the system relief.
Relief valves are adjusted by use of a pressure gauge. Generally adjustment requires placing shims behind a spring in the valve. Many loader and hoe valves also have reliefs and many of these have screw adjustments. I would keep in mind that what you're hearing may be fairly normal hydraulic noise but I know it's tough to say what's normal without a comparison. By the same token, it'd be good to know if the lift speed is normal. A partially obstructed line would still produce power but would reduce flow, and it might also make more noise. It would be good to be fairly certain that a relief has a problem before tearing into it.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-03-07 50691
Tom, relief valves or valves can make the noise described if they are grooved from damage of foreign material or sticking. They will screech when trying to open and a small amount of oil passes as they are not opening properly and often hammer as they can't move there normal way. This might be the problem or it might be the something else. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-08 50748
Right you are Art! I'm not sure the question can be taken much further unless we hear more about the tractor. I'm stuck trying to thing through what might cause hydraulic noise when feathering the 3ph but not otherwise and why it would happen with and without 3ph loads. A possibility is that partially obstructed high-pressure line is keeping the line near relief pressure all the time, but then the hydraulics should work slower.
Another possibility is something binding in the lift cylinder or linkage. I guess it might not be hydraulic noise at all. Don't know! Think we've got to hear more on this one.
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| jke
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-03-08 50778
Tom and Art
I haven't had the chance to change fluid and clean filter but that is the first thing i'll try.
when I feather it the noise is bad just like gears clashing,(hammering?)and it doesn't lift at all. to lift I have to raise the lever up fast and it still makes a little of the noise unless I take the lever all the way up.
does this make sense?
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-09 50797
I think I'd change the oil and filter and see what that does. A description of 'hammering' or erratic operation in general can be affected by the oil/filter and it also inclines an explanation more towards Art's comments about dirty relief valves--new oil may help that sort of problem too.
In the meantime, I think I'd lift the lower link arms by hand when the tractor is off to check for any binding etc. When I first got my used tractor, the loader hammered when feathering it down under load. Turned out to be inadequately greased upper arm pivots. The arms had 90-degree zerks in them and you really couldn't get a grease gun on them. Changing to 45-degree zerks and greasing then a few times cured the hammering. There are several pivot points on a 3ph that could be checked but there aren't any grease fittings--at least on my Ford.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-03-09 50809
I don't believe it is your relief valve that is the noise maker but the control valve is the culprit. I think that you were not up to full pressure if you are only slowly opening the valve when it makes the noise. Just like with a water valve in a house that makes noise when being turned on when the seat gets bad. The fluids and the filter are a must do before anything else gets touched. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-10 50857
Yes, I too think there are quite a few things I'd eliminate before blaming the relief.
We're probably waiting to see if an oil/filter change cures the problem. In the meantime, it might be good to talk about operation. I don't know, but a 5200 probably doesn't have a position control hitch. I've only operated position control types so I don't know how to expect one of these, I'll call them centre-neutral, types to work.
Myself, I've never had much luck trying to feather my position-control hitch to get either precise or timely movements. The design of a position-control hitch makes it possible to be fairly precise about how low a hitch can go but I think there's less concern with where or when a hitch stops during a lift. I did try micro-managing my hitch to control the action of my box scraper before I got a hydraulic top-link, and I wasn't successful at all.
I'm thinking that at least in theory there are several valves in a position-control hitch that could flutter if a hitch was feathered and that might account for the hammering. Art's comment about not getting full pressure is what triggered this bit of theory. I guess there is a possibility that a different operating technique might cure the hammering. If I had to set an exact lift position I'd probably turn the flow control valve down so an implement would lower very slowly and then lift the implement above where I needed it and back it down.
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