Go Bottomfront axle kingpin replace
 | brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin 
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2004-03-07 79164
Hi again, I am rebuilding my 9n/8n hybrid was going to sell it but I am leaning towards keeping since I am doing way too good a job on it to sell LOL. A question for the pros. Is it possible the ole guy that had my tractor before me never put a king pin in?along with the pivot bushing? I have found alot of "rigged" fixes so far and always new the front needed a bushing but untill I took the radiator off and all the grease and gook I never really saw the bad bushing. Now I am looking at it and it is missing something?? I see nothing that looks like the king pin and what I see is just a long bushing that is no where near the right size. In fact it looks like it should have a spacer and there is nothing there either. My book calls for a pivot pin pivot bushing, spacer and anouther spacer also.
Is there supposed to be any movement in this area and how tight should it be (the bushing) Any help would be great for I am not that knowlegable in this area
Thank you!!!
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-03-07 79189
OK, I just jacked up the front end and can see clearly that there must be something missing. There is atleast 1/8" total clearance on the ID. .060 per side. Also looks like there should be a spacer or something behind it. I see where it has to be able to pivot now so I am assuming that when I make the bushing there should be some cleance. Anyone know if the bushing is a bronze? or what kind of metal??
Thanks ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL 
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2004-03-10 79483
Good question. It looks like the pros like Art missed this one. I would not assume that the bushing has been replaced. Probably just wear. I would not bet against the bushing shim having worn in two and disappeared.
I am not sure if it would be brass on steel or steel on steel. Is there no where that you can fine the 8N parts? If you can find the hard brass then the brass on steel would likely be better for wear. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-11 79529
I think a typical 2wd axle has an long pin with a 90-degree bend at the bottom for the wheel spindle and splines on the top for the steering linkage. There is an assortment of shims, spacers, thrust washers, seals and bearings along the pin as well as an upper and lower bushing. It'd be very good to have a parts diagram to know all the parts needed and their assembly order for sure. Manuals seem to be my favourite suggestion lately and I know that not real helpful.
I think parts for the N's are fairly available from after-market sources and that might be easier than making bushings--especially if grease fittings are involved. I installed kingpins on a 60's Ford van using a rebuild kit. The kit contained a special reamer to ream both bushings to speced ID and also keep the bores in both bushings aligned. The ability to do that might be important. The kit also contained a driver for the new bushings but I had to rig up something to remove the old ones.
Since the kit contained both new bushings, new pins and a reamer, there was no question of getting the right clearances. I'm not sure if new bushings on old pins would necessarily produce speced clearances. That might be a case for making your own bushings but the right clearances should be known.
....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-03-11 79598
Peters, Tom G.
Thanks for replying "and now the rest of the story"
What threw me off was my 2n,9n,8n manual, they lump em all together and sometimes are very vague about which diagram is which. I was looking at the 8n diagram that has spacers. The 9n's dont. That cleared up a whole lot. The other night I was looking at her thinking to myself, "Hmmm do I really want to do this?" Naturally, after (not) "sleeping on it" LOL. Being the somewhat perfectionest In my own mind that I am I decided to do it right and not cut any corners. I disasembled the front end , the radiator was already off anyway and took the whole unit in to work yesterday leaving at 4am. I
worked my normal 10 hour shift and at 3pm I started on my project.
I was able to press out the center pin with out any heat, (alot of blocking and alot of force). I was not to happy to find nothing was usable again. I went to work and found that the 2 holes holding the center pin were dissimilar .008 different. I made anouther pin using 4130 pre-hard measuring 1.7585 on one end 3/4" long and the rest of the pin was .751, 3.770 long. I then went to the arm and found that there was a crack half way thru the center. After doing some sparking tests and "ringing" tests I decided that it was a cast steel and not cast iron Phewww this makes it easier. I "V" grooved the crack and penetrated a good weld after pre-heating it to around 400 degrees (just incase it was a nightmere). Came out wonderfull. I then went to my cnc mill and milled out a new hole 2.166 in diameter. That also came out great cleaned up just about the whole piece that was really oblong!!!. I then took out a piece of AMPCO 18!!! bronze, all I had was one that was 3" so I had alot of turning to do. I bored a whole 1.754 2.5" long and then turned the o.d. to 2.164 Perfect fit. Guess what? It all came together just like I planned! I now have a new semi-hard pin and a real thick bronze bushing. This should last about as long as I live and maybe my kids also! I did not put any grease fittings in for fear of dirt/sand gettin in there and speeding up the wear process (also figured it lasted 50+ years before with out em) Anyway I left work at 8:00 pm. I think I kicked butt!! 5 hours and a pefect job.
BTW, it was steel on steel before. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-12 79623
Well now that is a real good description. I had either forgotten or never knew you did that kind of work. Perfectionists and access to that type of equipment tend to go together so I'm not surprised at the outcome. I imagine you did think through whether the pin temper and the shock loads on them are consistent.
Incidentally and more related to another comment: One of my Shepherds was a chewer as a pup and chewed up an aluminum overhead lawn sprayer when my dad was visiting. As a former A&E mechanic he knew something about metal work and he joked that I should have named the dog Rockwell. The next Shepherd also was a chewer so he was named Rockwell. Most people thought I must have liked old magazine covers or something. ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-03-12 79688
Tom G.
LOL, I like the name! My Lab was also a chewer, she ate 2 high chairs and many many, articles of never seen again pawer rangers. Also a 1" Pike hook and a 500 dollar bill later an a few stitches to boot!!!
As for the temper, No I did not give much thought to it, (to be honest) The pre hard is (to say the least) not very hard. You can work it (with just about) any cutting tools not made in china LOL. It has a toughness to it more than hard, so it really is not brittle. The one thing that I did not do is put a whole down the center of the pin to get at the bottom pulley. I figured with a little never seez on the bolts if I had to ever get to the pulley (and after doing all this ) it wont be too tough to drop the front member again.
Whoopie, my after market front side panels that I won on ebay for 82 dollars came in today. They only have a couple of small marks where the weld is showing that need to be repaired. Who ever made them done a fine job! I say after market, but it looks to me like this guy must have a skill and some equipment because he beat all the other "new" side panels by 40 bucks and they dont look like they were made in china. I feel good about that, I think I just helped out a good ole AMERICAN (hard working craftsmen) make some beer money or feed a few of his kids for a few days! I am happy with my blind purchase! This was one part of the rebuild that was eating at me, because they are so visual and vital to a nice looking tractor but I did not want to spend 120 bucks or more on them.
Thanks for all you guys advice, more questions to come, I am sure for you guys!!! Thanks again for all the help! ....
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2004-03-13 79738
Be careful. Those N-series tractors grow on you. You may never be able to sell it. :-) ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-03-13 79803
Shortmagnum
The "CEO" of house hold finance's has already approved the C.A.R.R. for the implimintation of finding a good place in our Garage for it if I want.
That may all change though when the impliments I am buying for the new Blue machine start filling up the corners (and when she see's what a rotary cutter, disk, tank sprayer,snow thrower, and a few containers of wax costs) LOL ....
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