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Rick Cosman
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2001-01-17          23490


Do you guys use your fwd as needed or all the time? I don't know whether to treat my tractor like my truck or not. Thanks



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Jim Youtz
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2001-01-17          23492


Rick, just let your use be your guide. I never use 4wd while mowing or crossing turf, due to potential for tearing up the lawn. I never use it on paved surfaces. Otherwise, 4wd improves performance on just about any other use I can think of. ....


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TomG
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2001-01-18          23497


I avoid using 4wd on pavement. The axle drive ratios on most tractors cause the front wheels to lead the rears slightly. I've heard that this lead causes added stress on the front drive when a tractor is on high traction surfaces. ....


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Ted Kennedy
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2001-01-18          23498


Rick, Yes and no. I think Jim and Tom are on target. The only time that I use FWD on dry pavement is when I need to load heavy material, and then I only drive in a straight lin;, into, and back out of, the pile. ....


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Roger L.
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2001-01-18          23500


Rick, none of the common compact tractors have FULL TIME four wheel drive. This is because they do not have a differential between the front and rear drive shafts. They have PART TIME four wheel drive. Treat it just like an older CJ jeep or 4wd pickup - the kind with the locking hubs on the front wheels. ....


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Bird Senter
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2001-01-18          23501


I guess I'll just echo what the others have said. I only use 4WD when needed, and never on pavement (unless I've been using 4WD and forget to take it out - which fortunately doesn't happen very often). ....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-01-19          23517


Roger, as is often the case, comes through with a mechanically interesting idea. It never occurred to me that the distances traveled by the wheels are different front to back as well as left to right in a turn. Live and learn--all you have to do is listen I've found. At a more basic level, I've noticed that only 3 of the 4 wheels spin when using the differential lock while in 4wd. Guess it goes without saying that locking the rear differential doesn't lock the front one. ....


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Art White
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2001-01-19          23518


Tom you should balance your air pressure from front to rear to equal out your lead-lag ratio. It just takes a couple of minutes to do and it does relieve a lot of stress on the drive system. ....


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mbjacobs
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2001-01-19          23519


Art, How would you "balance your air pressure from front to rear to equal out your lead-lag ratio"? Do you use the tire manufacturer's tables on rolling radius? Or, is there an easier way? ....


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Todd
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2001-01-19          23521


TomG,
Have you ever seen the "BiSpeed Turn" option on Kubota's B2100 and 2400 tractors. It was supposed to compensate for the difference in tracking radius between the front and rear wheels. I loved the idea until two dealers told me it was a service intensive option, to put it nicely. I wonder if New Holland's pivoting front axle compensates for the mismatch. I don't have any experience with it as I have a kubota, but I'd be interested to know. With an open differential in front and back, if the outside wheel tracks are the same length in a turn, you probably wouldn't ever need the 2WD option. ....


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Art White
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2001-01-19          23522


The tires rated pressure that are on the tires are for guidelines only. I find that do to different manufacterers that you have to take it one at a time. Normally you do need a dirt or snow covered area as well as a concrete floor. First on the concrete floor set your pressures so you have full tire contact. Then go drive the tractor on the lose dirt or snow and see how much tire wind up you get and adjust the air pressure accordingly. You should have no more than 4% lead on the front. This will give you just a slight distortion of the tire tread print. Very unscientific but works great. It should on the concrete allow for easy in and out of the four wheel drive lever. ....


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TomG
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2001-01-20          23541


Todd: I'd be interested too. What I know is my mid-80's Ford 1710, and I imagine that the NH pivoting axle is something different than the pivot point on my 1710. I guess I should start reading some trade magazines to keep up on modern mechanics. Maybe somebody knows several good magazines. ....


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TomG
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2001-01-20          23542


I remember somebody talking about reading tire tread prints for determining tread contact. The prints would be read on soft ground rather than concrete. The idea is that a tire properly inflated for its load will leave a clean tread print across the tire width. Too much pressure and the tread fades out on the edges. Too little and it fades out in the centre. I don't know how useful the idea is, but it seems interesting. I suppose the idea might also work for reading lead conditions as well. The front tread marks probably would appear scrubbed if there were excessive lead. Myself, I tend to keep less front tire pressure than many people who have loaders. I run 12 - 14 lbs., and maybe as low as 10 lbs. on ice during the winter. I increase the pressure if I'm going to do some really heavy loader work. I believe that lower front tire pressure reduces lead. ....


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Art White
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2001-01-20          23545


Tom the tires on a car have a print you can do that with quite easily but the tractor tires are of a far stronger side wall and tread area and will not give you that indepth of a read out. Part of it for us has changed as with the new big tractors they engage electrically so we can not feel if it is a smooth engagement of the four wheel drive at all times. With ag tire's or industrial tires if working in soft dirt you still have the other factor of the depth of the cleats that can make a difference. Air pressure balance does change depending on loads and it is hard to find the "happy" middle of the road,we often find several different pressures needed for optimum efficency. The one thing to remember is the air pressure on the sidewall that says maximum is there for the installer so he doesn't get hurt while setting the bead. ....


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Roger L.
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2001-01-20          23546


I've tried to look at tread print pattern soft ground and snow several times without much luck. I have a tractor that doesn't seem to suffer from windup so what I have done is to drive some sheetmetal screws into a lug front and rear so that I can identify a particular lug, and then drive slowly and straight on the level in light snow. The I measured the distance between the identified lugs and compared that front/rear tire circumfrential distance ration with the factory front/rear gear ratios. It is a maddening thing to do accurately, and the measurement varies more than I would wish. Not much luck with this method, other than to tell me what I already suspected....which was that the tire and gear ratios are within about 5% of being the same. This was done on a tractor that doesn't suffer much from windup, but I wanted to know the ratios because I am thinking of putting turfs on it.
Since most compacts use a mechanical lever to engage or disengage FWD, I have better luck testing by just driving on concrete or hard ground - alternately putting it into and out of 4wd and feeling of the force required on the lever to see if I am getting any windup. One of my tractors will slide in and out of 4wd with no windup at all (the +-5% one), the other winds up right away....I don't know the ratio% difference on that tractor, but this tells me to be extra careful on the one with windup to make sure that I am on slippery ground before I use 4wd. The idea of adjusting tire pressures to make a difference is interesting, but I've never used it myself.

....


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TomG
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2001-01-21          23550


Happy to hear that I'm not the only one who heard of tread print readings but couldn't see anything useful. My 1710 doesn't seem to have wind up problems now, but a former owner might have. The 4wd linkage was bent and had a broken pin that had to be repaired this summer. I've heard of people who do have wind up problems lifting the front wheels with the loader before engaging or disengaging the 4wd. It works, but fixing the problem seems a better approach.

Funny thing, I got the tractor back from the shop from the 4wd repair and checked tire pressures a few days later, The front tires pegged my 20# gauge. Guess the mechanics thought I should run a lot more pressure than I do. I let a bunch out.

I helped a friend do some tire pressure juggling in the late 60's, but not on tractors. He had a SCCA novice racing license and used to enter autocrosses sometimes. He'd put on racing slicks and then roar around the course parking lot skidding the car. We'd adjust the front and rear pressures to get the right degree of over-steer for the course. Maybe radial tires have changed the practice, but racecar drivers use tire pressure to adjust traction as well as tractor owners.
....


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