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4100 and roll overs

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Kevin Squires
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2001-07-11          29983


I have only owned my 4100 for a month or so and its use so far has been limited to some bucket work and a very little mowing work. I must say, I am not getting a good feel for this tractor on hillsides yet. The slightest incline feels like the whole thing is going to roll. I am extremely aware of any side slopes while mowing and I always try to approach bucket work from a perpendicular approach. Several times, I have shoveled fill into my bucket because I have been afraid of rolling the tractor while trying to pick up fill slightly off center. I am new to tractors and sitting on it seems like there is a very high center of gravity. Feels like J.D. should sell outriggers! Does anyone have a story that might give some sense as to what it takes to roll a 4100?



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Eddie Suckow
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2001-07-11          29986


I too am leary on my 7205 Cub Cadet, with only a 48" wheel base. I have been thinking about getting some type of inclinometer to put on the dash, anyone heard of something like this? ....


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Bart H.
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2001-07-11          29993


I have worked a JD 4200 with an FEL and 3 point Bush Hog. With only the (bucket full)loader attached I have done the 3 -wheel thing. Quite scary, but no disaster because the front axle will pivot only so far before the tractor rolls. So far.
I have found that when using the loader a 3 point ballest box improves tractor stability.
On the other hand, when using the Bush Hog I have encountered many uncomfortable situations where I felt the need to "back out" on grades that my JD 210 can handle. Not sure how accurate the tilt-o-meter between my ears is, but make it a practice to wear the seat belt just in case.

Sure would hate to roll the thing with a Bush Hog whailing away,

Bart ....


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Terry Senay
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2001-07-11          29997


Kevin, I know the feeling well. When using the FEL, I always have the ballast box attached. It was well worth the money (box with 5 80lb bags of concrete). It does stabilize the tractor when using the FEL. I have used a bush hog once with the FEL attached. I took the FEL off and used front ballast weights (4 @ 42lbs) and it felt somewhat better. It also helped with manueverability. I have had one bad incident where I got thrown off of my seat while using the FEL on an incline. The engine stopped. I was looking up at my tractor in amazement. I was lucky not to get hurt. So, use ballast on front or 3 pt hitch when necessary, wear your seatbelt, and be very careful. If it feels bad, there's a chance that it will be bad!!!! Follow your instincts and feelings.

Terry ....


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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2001-07-11          29999


A while back we had some discussion about filling the tires to lower the center of gravity. I had a JD 750 with filled back tires (turf tires). The added weight in the rear of the tractor made considerable difference in the way the machine handled on the hills and with a load in the bucket.
I now have a JD 955 and have not seen the need for filling the tires yet(R4). If the slope gets to steep as I am going across the side hill then the back end tends to slip. I guess this would depend on the tire set up but I would think the 4100 would handle much like the JD 955.
When I was looking at tractors this was a consideration for me. I brought a MF home to test and took the NH's up and down hills at the dealership. I was not comfortable with the MF 1250 and thought the tires needed filling. The NH TC-33 was fairly stable but I like the stability of the TC-40. ....


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BillBass
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 190 North Texas
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2001-07-11          30001


I looked at the web site for the tilt meter noted by Charlie. It's an interesting device. Obviously, though, it gives only a relative indication of danger for any given tractor since the center of gravity is different on all tractors, and will vary with installed equipment, loaded tires, etc. Still it got my attention. Has anyone had experience using one of these? I too get nervous mowing on slopes. ....


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brad
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2001-07-12          30003


Rear wheel spacers improve stability in a big, big way. I've had a few IH cub 154 lo-boy's with and without spacers. The IH spacer is about 3 inches totaling about a 6 inch increase in rear wheel width. I've looked far and wide for spacers for the JD 750 and 790 and have been told by JD that the spacers would void the transmission and final drive warranty. I found a company, Pronovost, that will custom make them in 1 inch widths and you provide the longer bolts. It seems like such a simple solution to the compacts narrow/stability problem. IH had it licked in 1970! ....


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Eddie Suckow
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2001-07-12          30006


The guage at the website mentioned above looks exactly like one used on a sailboat. I never even thought about using one of those. They are available at marine stores, may even be able to find a used one at a boat bone yard.
thanks for the tip charlie,
Big Ed ....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-07-12          30010


Tiltmeters were quite the rage at another site awhile back. Myself, I'm not sure how useful they would be. I think that most accidents happen due to momentary combinations of conditions rather then the general slopes measured by a meter. Flips happen when bumps are hit, implements snag or soft dirt is hit and traction breaks. Flips can happen on almost any slope, and I just don't think a meter provides that useful an indication of unsafe conditions unless very gentle slopes were used for criteria. A meter may provide a false security, which is not a good substitute for the feeling in the gut and watching where the tractor is going. I try to organize my work so I stay off side-hills so the issue doesn't come up much with me. I remember a discussion about breaking traction on a side hill. I can't remember if the general rule is to turn into or away from the slope. It would be good to know these things. There also was a discussion about tractor run-aways on hills quite awhile back. The basic idea of a runaway is that traction breaks while on a hill, and the tractor starts sliding. There is very little steering or brakes, because there already is little traction. What traction there is tends to swap back and from left to right (due to differential counter-rotation) and tends to snap the tractor around and into a side-roll. Basically, there isn't much hope of stopping the tractor. You slide to the bottom of the hill if you're lucky. The run-away and related discussions are very good things to read. Again, it’s just my opinion, but I think many flips happen when traction breaks. A tiltmeter just isn’t going to indicate a wet spot or hidden rock on a hill that’s likely to break traction. A meter just isn’t going to remind a person that it rained the previous night, and the hill that was worked yesterday probably isn’t safe today ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2001-07-12          30011


If you are using your tractor on the same property, I would suggest that you simply measure the the slopes that you are concerned about with a level and a ruler if knowing the exact slope makes you happy, the meter really is only useful when you are parallel to the slope, if you need it when you are perpendicular you may need something else, like a psych counselor ;>).

I think Tom has it right on this one in that you have to use some common sense when operating your tractor. I have some steep slopes and I don't do them when it is wet, you don't fill your loader to max and ride like a cowboy, you hold smaller buckets low to the ground, you don't lift a full bucket to max height on a slope to dump it .....
Once you take your own grade measurements (if you think that will help you) having a tiltometer is about as useful as having a compass on a tractor that is always used on the same lot ;>). ....


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BillBass
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 190 North Texas
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2001-07-12          30015


I agree that there is no substitute for one's own comfort factor. And that comfort factor comes with experience. I have a bar ditch in front of my property that has a fairly good slope for quite a distance. My fences are set back from the road (state hiway) by about 30' to 40'. To make it worse, there is a creek that crosses in the middle. At first I would not even mow the whole thing. Then little by little as I became more familiar with it, I now mow it all. On the steeper parts, I creep along in 2-low and only do it when it is dry. The ag tires provide good traction. The tractor never feels near tipping and I am more at ease, but not totally (which is probably good).
One should always turn INTO a roll if it ever occurs. Since you will roll down hill, you would have to turn down hill to try to counteract the roll. Even if you fail to react in time to stop the roll, at least now you will tend to roll sideways to the slope rather than down it. ....


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2001-07-12          30017


My 4100 felt quite tippy and I live on a 2+ acre lot that so steep that if you walk 150 feet into the back yard you can see over the roof of my two story house. I took off the rounded profile R1's and replaced them with calcium filled sharp shouldered car and truck tires. The stability is very much improved. But I also follow the advice above and drive with the implements as close to the ground as possible. You should never use the FEL without some sort of counterbalance on the TPH. ....


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Tucker Herbold
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2001-07-12          30024


I've had my 4100 for about 2 1/2 years now and a little over 200 hours. It has the FEL, 3PH ballast box (filled with about 800 lbs concrete) and the mid-mower standard from JD. Last fall I got a rear blade for help in clearing snow and this spring I made a set of wheel weight for the back wheels cause I kept losing traction with the blade. The wheel weights can add about 350 pounds total. When I first got the machine, it felt tippy to me too (having come from larger, wider bucket loaders), it took some adjustment. With the FEL on, you MUST use a fully loaded weight box (add more than just the 5 bags of concrete). Anything less and the back-end really wants to come off the ground. That's going to get you on your side in a hurry!! If you can, get Deere's wheel weights or make your own (mine are a plate that bolts onto the wheel using the regular lug nuts and has a solid shaft in the middle to suspend dumbbell weights on -- takes all of a minute to load or unload both sides and never handling more than 45 pounds at a time) they will really help. As far as mowing, take the 5 minutes to remove the weights and the FEL -- stability improves dramatically. I can mow on slopes I wouldn't even think of driving with the FEL on the machine (One slope, which I mow up and down as the path is only 20 feet wide, drops 70 feet vertically in 250 feet horizontally.) Other areas in the yard are not that severe but with just the mid-mount mower, the tractor does not feel like it wants to tip (and sometimes, I think I try just to see how far it can go -- dumb of me.) Take your time, use the proper ballasting, stay up/down the slopes as much as possible, keep the loads lighter and lower, and just practice -- these machines are a lot more stable than we sometimes give them credit for. ....


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JiggleBug
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2001-07-24          30336


Rollover and tipping were a problem with my small 2 cylinder Ford 1100 until I installed bolt extenders on each rear wheel lug nut and added liquid ballast to each tire. This widened the wheel spacing by a good 10" and cured the problem. From then on, the rear end would just slip sideways on a slope with no chance of tipping. Check with your dealer to find out if they approve of this first though. ....


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rdunstan
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-07-24          30338


I have a 4100, 410 loader w/48" bucket and a 54" belly mower with calcium filled R-4s in the rear. I do not have a ballast box and find the tractor quite stable to operate. I often dig and move full bucket of dirt around on our farm. BUT, I keep the bucket 6" off the ground when hauling it wournd and only raise the bucket to put the dirt on the top of the pile.

I also have a 1070 with a 72" bucket and have raised its rear end off teh ground. You only do that once! In general. if you don't try to take things too fast, the 4100 is quite stable.

That said, I have some hillsides that only can be mowed going up ro down, as tthey are simply too steep. I jacked the tractor up in the garage and blockedone side up to see how stable it was. I was a bit surprised - it feels like it will go over long before you can feel it by trying to rock teh blocked tractor.

When mowing, I often talk the bucket off the loader (takes abotu 15 seconds) and mow that way. The tracto seems a bit more stable and it is much easier to navigate in tight areas.

....


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Warren
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 54 Iowa
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2001-07-24          30339


I turn my tires around witch made the vaule stem on the inside that made the rear tires wider so i could put chains on in the winter. So i just left it that way all the time that seem too help a lot but still need to be careful.
Warren ....


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