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tsjr54
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17 Southeast Texas
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2005-06-14          112372


I have a Miller Bobcat 250 welder and I don't know if I should build a small trailer "Not for road use" property
only. Or build a lift frame for my 3 point on my Kubota
BX23? Something like forks so I could backup to it and go. Anyone have any Ideas or sugestions?
welder weights 560lbs.




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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-06-14          112373


I would say trailer. ....


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-06-15          112387


Whatever you end up with, I think it is a good idea to have it separated from the tractor while you are welding. If you get accidentally grounded to the BX you could burn out a lot of expensive stuff.

I like the trailer concept too..... ....


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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-06-15          112389


Northern Tool sells some utility wagons ranging from $60.00 to $100.00 with big Pneumatic tires for hauling up to 1,000 lbs. Generally used for lawn/garden use. These can be pushed by hand or you could weld a tongue for attachment to your tractor. With a wagon it stays level and you don't have to use a jack stand.

Ditto of DRankin statement, watch out for stray voltage! ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2005-06-15          112391


Ditto, Ditto. Get it not only unhooked from the tractor, but preferably minimum of 8' away. Make sure the trailer jack has a non-conductive material on the foot. We have several trailer mounted welders, and always unhook them from the truck before using.

Mount the welder on a skid that you can easily load and unload from the trailer. Now you can free up the trailer for other uses. ....


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tsjr54
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17 Southeast Texas
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2005-06-15          112396


Thanks for the info, I was leaning toward the 3point idea
But not after all this good input! I thought about the grounding issue and said well it's only riding on the 3point
and I'd be grounded only to what I'm welding, But then it only takes one time and I hate the smell of burning wires!
And that's why I posted this! Second opinions are beneficial

Thanks Again ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-06-15          112397


"...I'd be grounded only to what I'm welding..."

Not if the welder had a ground fault and the loader bucket was sitting on the earth ...

Better safe than very, very sorry.

Best of luck. ....


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tsjr54
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17 Southeast Texas
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2005-06-15          112409


Thanks for input
Looks like trailer time! ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-06-15          112414


GEEZE I wonder what all these poor dumb professional welders with truck mounted welders do?

The 3PH is not a problem.

However all that said I agree with everone the trailer is a better option but not for the reasons mentioned. ....


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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2005-06-15          112415


Our trucks have rubber isolators mounting the welders. ....


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yooperpete
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2005-06-16          112433


If you are relying on rubber isolators, make sure you do them correctly. (i.e. if you bolt it down thru the bottom, you need the bolt O.D. isolated as well as the bolt head and the unit itself).

If you do not isolate from your tractor and just rely on the tires, remember when your buddy comes over to talk and leans on your fender or hood (metal) and waits for you to do the last pass, he may get a tingling sensation as well as your tractor. Likewise if your male dog or cat lifts their leg on one of your tractor wheels while welding it just got grounded! ....


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beagle
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2005-06-16          112434


We are also some of those dummies with truck mounted welders. Pretty common in the steel construction industry. They are all isolated from the truck. It's important to remeber that voltage kills, not current. It's the potential energy (voltage) that is looking for a conductor. That's why an ironworker can sit on the beam he's welding. The current surges from welding are enough to cause all kinds of problems with your tractor, along with other more serious problems if the machine malfuntions. ....


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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2005-06-16          112436


"It's important to remeber that voltage kills, not current."

Beagle, In general I have to differ with you on this statement. I can be subject to 50,000 volts potential difference and only say ouch if the current was low such as in your car ignition system. But as little as 1/4 amp of current through my body will stop my heart even at relatively low voltage.
Dave ....


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beagle
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2005-06-16          112440


Now I have to admit that school was a long time ago, but 50,000 volts is "potential" energy anxious to become "kenetic" energy at the first possible opportunity. Offer that potential energy a conductor with a lower resistance across the voltage than it already sees, and you become a light bulb fillament. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-06-16          112441


Actually, I think you would merely become part of a circuit.

Putting yourself in a 50,000 volt circuit would NOT make you very bright.

Sorry, I couldn't resist ...... LOL.

Best of luck. ....


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shortmagnum
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2005-06-16          112442


That's true but you still need enough charge behind that potential energy to create sufficient current across the resistor (your body) to be injured. I guess my only point is that you can have a high voltage situation but without a lot of current. Either way as I'm sure you know, nature follows Ohm's law (V=IR). Or maybe I should say Ohm's law follows nature.
Dave ....


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tsjr54
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-06-16          112443


Almost sorry I ask!
How did we get to "Dumb welders" and "Ohms Law"

....


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Murf
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2005-06-16          112446


Actually Dave, I don't think you're quite right there.

There is a big controversy over the use of stun guns right now.

The police categorize the stun gun as a "non-lethal" weapon which means the use of it is permitted in a much broader set of circumstances, and often strictly at the officer holding it's own discretion.

They are almost exclusively powered by a simple nine volt alkaline battery, but because of the circuitry, step that up to between about 20k and 800k volts. The current is exceptionally low.

Now, back to the controversy, there are many cases of people dying after being hit by a stun gun.

So, to say that mere voltage won't do you in is not true. Any amount of voltage capable of disrupting your bodies electrical system can be lethal.

Thus my comment "Putting yourself in a 50,000 volt circuit would NOT make you very bright."

Best of luck. ....


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yooperpete
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2005-06-16          112450


I don't know much about electricity but know enough to stay away. If you go to "google" and type in "voltage to kill a human" they site several experts and have a chart. At low voltage (120V) it takes about .06-.3A. The amount is different depending if it is AC or DC. Likewise high voltage has different effects. I've made my own conclusions on this issue.

I always say, electricity is Watts kills you. (V x A = W) Just stay away from it, in any instance! ....


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-06-16          112451


I had a friend, years ago, who brushed a high voltage transmission line while on his roof trying to take down his ham radio antenna.

He lived, but he clearly lost a lot of his cookies. It burned all the hair off his body and melted the rubber heels off his shoes. He had a crescent wrench in his back pocket that branded his butt with a perfect impression of its shape. If I remember right it blew out the phone and several electrical items in the house below.

My opinion of stun guns is the same as my opinion of pepper spray. No thank you. When they work they are nice but you cannot trust them.

There was some video on TV last month of a guy who got tasered about a half dozen times by the cops after a high speed chase. He just kept pulling the barbs out of his clothing and coming after the cops with a screwdriver. They finally had to shoot him with real guns and that put him down but didn't kill him.

The same stories abound with pepper spray.... sometimes it kills and sometimes it doesn't work at all.

Bottom line: as a cop, after you used all of this supposedly fool proof, non-lethal stuff, you still have to close to within bad breath distance, lay your hands of the person and arrest him.

If you gotta do that anyway you might as well go to the dance with a stout stick in you hands to start with and skip the preliminaries.

Back to the question..... get the trailer...... ....


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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2005-06-16          112454


I agree. Get the trailer. :)
Dave ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-06-16          112455


Picture #11 is a pic of the trailer a friend and I built (more like he built & I helped ;o) ) It was built from channel iron and a shortened mobile home axle. I have had over 3,000 lbs. on it and it could hardly tell. ....


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harvey
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2005-06-17          112490


I guess I just have to get out more.

The truck mounted welders have rubber motor mounts and vibration isolators. They also have grounding straps that run to the frame which is bolted to the truck.


You will not have a voltage problem if you build a 3ph steel frame and weld from it mounted on your tractor.
....


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earthwrks
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2005-07-05          113082


Personally, I like the 3-pt with forks on a skid better. You can drop it anywhere, when in long-time storage you can put it high up on a pallet shelf (providing you have a forklift), and more importantly from my experience having things stolen off the job and from home---having it on a very heavy skid and on one that is a little larger than what could fit comfortably in a pickup truck bed makes it less attractive to thieves. If you did it right you could even build a shed frame or protective roof for short-term outside use/storage.

On my last break-in thieves actually disassembled my $4000 welder/generator to get it out of my 24' enclosed carhauler backed up tight to a 10' fence and posts. And it was bolted to the floor too. But that didn't matter 'cause they used my own tools to take it apart! Talk about handing them the keyes! And the worst part is I had cancelled my "commercial tool coverage" just two weeks prior---who needs insurance? ....


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richardx
Join Date: Aug 2005
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2005-08-23          115316


You got a circuit,,,,negative to positive,,,,keep your ground as close to the weld area as you can,,don't go through no bearings or hydro cylinders,,and weld,,,thats how the big boys do it,,,thing ....


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